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ORIGINAL: EStan

It's a violation of the TOS of this board to question someone's salvation, anyway. I trust Lisa, our faithful moderator, to keep things firmly in hand.

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ORIGINAL: HHV5

Every so often, it is insinuated here that if you believe in an old Earth, you're not a believer - basically, you're going to hell because you reject the authority of the Bible and the Gospel of Redemption contained in it. Also, it is implied that those who believe in an old Earth are being fleeced and deluded by the "Godless" scientific community.

Listed below are some of the notable Christians who contend that the Earth is old.

Notable Christians Opens to an Old Earth Interpretation

So please, stop with the self-righteous "true believer" vs. "wolf in sheep's clothing" dichotomy. It is not your job to judge. In fact, some important figure in the Bible specifically told us not to.

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ORIGINAL: Neeva_Candida

As for the Bible telling us not to judge I find that simply incorrect.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment
John 7:24 (KJV)

~Neeva

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Every so often, it is insinuated here that if you believe in an old Earth, you're not a believer - basically, you're going to hell because you reject the authority of the Bible and the Gospel of Redemption contained in it. Also, it is implied that those who believe in an old Earth are being fleeced and deluded by the "Godless" scientific community.

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Listed below are some of the notable Christians who contend that the Earth is old.

Notable Christians Opens to an Old Earth Interpretation

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ORIGINAL: HHV5

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ORIGINAL: Neeva_Candida

As for the Bible telling us not to judge I find that simply incorrect.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment
John 7:24 (KJV)

~Neeva

That's not the kind of judgment this thread is talking about.

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ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

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Every so often, it is insinuated here that if you believe in an old Earth, you're not a believer - basically, you're going to hell because you reject the authority of the Bible and the Gospel of Redemption contained in it. Also, it is implied that those who believe in an old Earth are being fleeced and deluded by the "Godless" scientific community.

Honestly, I can count on one MAYBE two fingers how many hold this position, and I have lurked around these forums for quite some time. There are hardly enough to start a thread on.

Honestly, your opinion on whether or not this thread is warranted is irrelevant.

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Listed below are some of the notable Christians who contend that the Earth is old.

Notable Christians Opens to an Old Earth Interpretation

With all due respect, links such as the one listed above proves absolutely nothing. It is completely subjective, and those individuals mentioned at that link are not "guaranteed" Christians. You have no way of knowing that. I've heard plenty of times that Hitler was a born-again Bible-believin' Christian. Go figure that one out! The Bible does say "by their fruits ye shall know them." Think about that. How is that NOT judging?

Comparing Hitler to seminarians and Christian apologists. Nice.

Again, judging one's state of salvation, not judging their fruits.

So in all honesty, lists of people whom you place the label "Christian" on does not make them so. I say this not to doubt their devotion to Christ, but rather to show this link proves nothing. It would be advantageous of you to debate theologically and doctrinally whether or not the OEC doctrine plays any role in the Salvation Doctrine, instead of providing a list of "Christian" individuals subjectively labeled as so by you. Since one's "Christianity" is being debated here, it would be circular reasoning to provide a list of individuals whom others have already labeled as heathens. This will convince no one.

I didn't label them "Christian". Did you even go to the link?

Old Earth doctrine DOESN'T play a role in salvation.

That's the point.

When, where, why, and how God created is not relevant. All we need is faith in Christ as our Savior.

But there are YECs out there and here that judge, making a distinction between true believers and the rest.

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ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

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ORIGINAL: HHV5

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ORIGINAL: Neeva_Candida

As for the Bible telling us not to judge I find that simply incorrect.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment
John 7:24 (KJV)

~Neeva

That's not the kind of judgment this thread is talking about.

If not, what is your counter argument? Please explain.

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ORIGINAL: DanJames

To my knowledge, the people who claim that you must be an unbeliever in order to be a subscriber to evolution and/or uniformitarianism are very few, and tend to be short-lived, spastic posters. I don't think that there is any cause for alarm, as they aren't taken seriously, and the topics continue to be discussed despite their disruptions.

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ORIGINAL: cow451

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ORIGINAL: DanJames

To my knowledge, the people who claim that you must be an unbeliever in order to be a subscriber to evolution and/or uniformitarianism are very few, and tend to be short-lived, spastic posters. I don't think that there is any cause for alarm, as they aren't taken seriously, and the topics continue to be discussed despite their disruptions.

Sure.

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Honestly, your opinion on whether or not this thread is warranted is irrelevant.

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Comparing Hitler to seminarians and Christian apologists. Nice.

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I didn't label them "Christian". Did you even go to the link?

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Old Earth doctrine DOESN'T play a role in salvation.

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When, where, why, and how God created is not relevant.

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But there are YECs out there and here that judge, making a distinction between true believers and the rest.

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ORIGINAL: HHV5

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ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

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ORIGINAL: HHV5

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ORIGINAL: Neeva_Candida

As for the Bible telling us not to judge I find that simply incorrect.

Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment
John 7:24 (KJV)

~Neeva

That's not the kind of judgment this thread is talking about.

If not, what is your counter argument? Please explain.

Heaven vs. hell

True believer vs. person with delusion

Faithful layperson vs. "Godless" expert

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So please, stop with the self-righteous "true believer" vs. "wolf in sheep's clothing" dichotomy. It is not your job to judge. In fact, some important figure in the Bible specifically told us not to.

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ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

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Comparing Hitler to seminarians and Christian apologists. Nice.

No, you completely miss the point. Labeling one as a "Christian" does not make them so. I've heard first hand Hitler labeled as a Christian. Does this make him so? Hardly!

If a Christian apologist says s/he's Christian, I will take his/her word for it. They aren't random people picked from the streets, and to my knowledge, they didn't mass murder God's chosen people.

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I didn't label them "Christian". Did you even go to the link?

REALLY?! Scroll back and read your post! You said " Listed below are some of the notable Christians..." and then provided the link. By providing a link of so-called "notable Christians" (I am not arguing this, I am nearly pointing out that they are labeled as so), and saying with your own words "Listed below are some notable Christians" YOU are indeed subjectively labeling them as Christians! I hope you understand my point that providing a list of names is in NO WAY convincing to ANYONE. If men such as Hitler can be called Christian, who can't??? I am simply pointing out, in a kind hearted manner mind you, how weak your argument truly is. I'm playing devil's advocate to help you out here.

I guess I should have added quotes to "notable Christians". I just assumed the title on the linked page was sufficient for people to infer that I derived "notable" from it.

Again, I'm pointing out, in a kind hearted manner mind you, how presumptuous your argument is. The people listed aren't random Joe's from the yellow ages.

And yes, cut me some slack here, I did visit the link. Quite intriguing!

When you fail to distinguish between scholars of the Bible/apologists and a genocidal maniac, there is no slack to cut.

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Old Earth doctrine DOESN'T play a role in salvation.

I whole heartedly agree. I do not subscribe to the Old Earth Doctrine, and I believe those who do are terribly misguided and confused, but in no way does it impeach one's salvation. But it is a very important matter, one that may change one's view on Scripture, and indirectly causes one to fall away, but it plays no direct role in the Salvation message. We agree on this.

Interesting, because the literal interpretation of the Bible (ie: 24-hr 7 day creation) does the same thing. When the literal interpretation of Genesis does not fit what is observed, people might reject the whole Bible, including the Gospel.

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When, where, why, and how God created is not relevant.

It is not relevant to Salvation, but it is a VERY relevant belief in one's life that may change how one looks at life and Christianity. It is EXTREMELY relevant, but no, not towards Salvation. Thank God He gave man the liberty to be ignorant, yet still capable of receiving God's amazing grace of Salvation from our ignorance! Praise God!

That would be subjective. Some may not care about how, when, or where humanity was created- just that thru faith in Christ, we are saved. Some may care a lot.

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But there are YECs out there and here that judge, making a distinction between true believers and the rest.

Thank the Lord there are very few of them. About as many who believe the Earth is flat. LOL!!!!! That was hilarious!

I have my suspicions, but I'll be optimistic.

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ORIGINAL: Neeva_Candida

I hope you'll understand my confusion. When you stated that it was not our job to judge it immediately followed the above statement. To me this seemed like you meant that someone who was attempting to judge whether a person was a true believer versus a non-believer. It was from that premise that I made my statement about judgment. We are to make those types of judgments.

Now, the list you most recently provided seems to say the same thing. However, I am assuming that there is some difference that I am simply overlooking. Please let me know what that might be.

~Neeva

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But when you call a Christian, who whole-heartedly believes in God, the Son, and Holy Spirit and the message of salvation, "Godless", that's not something to be taken lightly.

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If a Christian apologist says s/he's Christian, I will take his/her word for it. They aren't random people picked from the streets, and to my knowledge, they didn't mass murder God's chosen people.

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I guess I should have added quotes to "notable Christians". I just assumed the title on the linked page was sufficient for people to infer that I derived "notable" from it.

Again, I'm pointing out, in a kind hearted manner mind you, how presumptuous your argument is. The people listed aren't random Joe's from the yellow ages.

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When you fail to distinguish between scholars of the Bible/apologists and a genocidal maniac, there is no slack to cut.

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When the literal interpretation of Genesis does not fit what is observed,

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That would be subjective. Some may not care about how, when, or where humanity was created- just that thru faith in Christ, we are saved.

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I have my suspicions, but I'll be optimistic.

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If you truly wished to convince me otherwise, you would be better off debating the doctrine, rather than providing a list of people I am already biased against. Your argument is WEAK. That's all.

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Do you really think I will admit I'm wrong, due to a list of people I have already dismissed as non-Christians?

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The point of this thread isn't to prove evolution or creationism.

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This was the point of this thread. Passing judgment.

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ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod

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The point of this thread isn't to prove evolution or creationism.

Never did I say it was, nor have I insinuated it.

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ORIGINAL: every1needsgod

You (hypothetically a Creationist) provide me with a list of Creationists who have done nothing but righteous acts throughout their life, and also claim they are Christians. Do you really think I will admit I'm wrong, due to a list of people I have already dismissed as non-Christians?

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This was the point of this thread. Passing judgment.

I know, and I was trying to help you. Too bad you couldn't see that.

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ORIGINAL: every1needsgod

You (hypothetically a Creationist) provide me with a list of Creationists who have done nothing but righteous acts throughout their life, and also claim they are Christians. Do you really think I will admit I'm wrong, due to a list of people I have already dismissed as non-Christians?

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