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BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/2/2008 12:54:17 PM
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arclite811
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Hiii!
For all the fellow Bible-thumpers out there, I have a question!
What does God say about how a man and a woman are actually joined? Everyone is sure that when joined, they are one flesh, it is God's covenant and should not be broken, but I was wondering how it is that the man and wife are actually "physically" united.
Does it really require a man with the gift of pastor-teaching to say the words, "I now pronounce you...", or is it more of an agreement that occurs between Man, Woman and God, that need not initially include anyone else?
The Wedding at Cana would seem to indicate that the community is highly involved in the union of a man and woman, but it would seem to me that the actual "fusing" together of any particular man and woman need not require all of this, and that the ceremony, reception and all-round celebration merely occurs after the fact.
Yes, traditions are traditions, and official American-style weddings are great. But with the law of the land fluctuating as it is nowadays and because of all the problems with human sexuality and porn and how can we help our children make good choices, I think it would be good to look at the text of scripture to see if we can get a clearer answer on this whole "man-woman business".
Plus, I happen to believe that a marriage occurs when a choice is made between 3 people: Man, Woman and God. FOR EXAMPLE, (not to get too off subject), I believe that salvation is merely faith alone in Christ alone, and that water baptism is merely an, perhaps optional, outward manifestation of something that has already inwardly occurred. The wedding ceremony and reception and celebration and all that, I believe, is like the water. It's not something thats absolutely ::necessary:: for the "deed to be done", so to speak, rather it is the CHOICE that makes the change. Getting to the point, if I'm wrong in my doctrine here, I'd love for somebody to show me.
So thanks for reading this post. Also, please save any discussions about baptism/salvation for another post, that was just supposed to be used as an illustration. Thanks! 
_____________________________
The decisions you made today echoed into eternity.
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/2/2008 3:05:28 PM
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Wild-Rose
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From: Upstate NY
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quote:
Plus, I happen to believe that a marriage occurs when a choice is made between 3 people: Man, Woman and God.
You would be mistaken. Your definition would be like people living together and then just deciding that "we're married now". NO, they are not married until the legalities are taken care of, whether that is a church wedding or a civil ceremony. You must follow the law of the land, not just your own whims.
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Wild-Rose
Rejoice that your name is written in heaven. Luke 10:20
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/2/2008 3:18:57 PM
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huckfinn327
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Hi Arclite811,
Marriage has been manifest when one (never been married or widowed) man, and one (never been married or widowed) woman consent to and complete a public wedding ceremony.
Huckfinn
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/2/2008 11:53:14 PM
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Ps103
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MODERATOR'S NOTE :: ATTENTION PLEASE
In our forums marriage will be defined as follows:
A union between a man and a woman as recognized by state and federal laws. (We do not consider same-gender unions to be marriage in our community.)
Having sex with someone of the opposite gender does not make you married. God calls it sin.
Sustained and forceful arguements to the contrary will be considered a violation of our Terms of Service and may result in further action up to and including a ban from the site.
Please do not reply to this message within the Community.
Please email Community@salemwebnetwork.com with questions, comments, or concerns.
Please do not send me PMs regarding this message.
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/3/2008 6:48:36 AM
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DaveW
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Marriage is a covenant. A covenant is a binding agreement between 2 parties with witnesses.
We have formalized the process but the formalization is at its core not necessary. What is necessary is that a man and woman speak their agreement before witnesses that they bind themselves to each other for life as husband and wife.
In the US, there are certain legalities to make it formal, and as believers we are expected to obey the laws of the land insomuch as they do not force one to violate the bible. SO here, one must go thru the formalities of state to make this covenant.
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/3/2008 11:23:21 AM
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laura...
Posts: 2917
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quote:
Plus, I happen to believe that a marriage occurs when a choice is made between 3 people: Man, Woman and God. FOR EXAMPLE, (not to get too off subject), I believe that salvation is merely faith alone in Christ alone, and that water baptism is merely an, perhaps optional, outward manifestation of something that has already inwardly occurred. The wedding ceremony and reception and celebration and all that, I believe, is like the water. It's not something thats absolutely ::necessary:: for the "deed to be done", so to speak, rather it is the CHOICE that makes the change. Getting to the point, if I'm wrong in my doctrine here, I'd love for somebody to show me.
James 2:14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.
Likewise, a marriage claim is proven by its "deeds". If a man and woman claim to be married but will not stand up in front of witnesses and declare their marriage legally, bind themselves to each other legally, provide all the benefits and rights that come with a legal marriage such as inheritance, insurance and accountability, their "marriage" is non-existant. Show me a marriage without commitment, and I will show you my marriage by my binding, legal commitment.
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This is what the Lord says: “Stop at the crossroads and look around. Ask for the old, godly way, and walk in it. Travel its path, and you will find rest for your souls. But you reply, ‘No, that’s not the road we want!’ Jer 6:16
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/4/2008 1:45:06 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
Marriage has been manifest when one (never been married or widowed) man, and one (never been married or widowed) woman consent to and complete a public wedding ceremony.
I agree. Scripture tells us God does the joining...not man and not a legal document. And when He joins us- we are bound to each other for life. (1cor7:39, Rom 7:2-3, Luke 16:18) Man's laws do not override God's laws for marriage. There are many many unlawful, unscriptural marriages today.
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/4/2008 3:25:59 PM
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DaveW
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quote:
There are many many unlawful, unscriptural marriages today. Since there is a one-stop on the re-marriage issue, we are talking "unlawful, unscriptural" first marriages here, right?
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/4/2008 3:52:12 PM
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iwillfearnoevil
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how can there be an unlawful unscriptural first marriage??? and yes there is a one-stop thread which is the only place where remarriage conditions should be discussed ...
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/5/2008 7:43:19 AM
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DaveW
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Just trying to keep the discussion on track and out of the one-stop territory.
BTW, Leviticus lists a whole lot of first marriage prohibitions.
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/5/2008 8:03:45 PM
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arclite811
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quote:
Marriage is a covenant. A covenant is a binding agreement between 2 parties with witnesses.
We have formalized the process but the formalization is at its core not necessary. What is necessary is that a man and woman speak their agreement before witnesses that they bind themselves to each other for life as husband and wife.
In the US, there are certain legalities to make it formal, and as believers we are expected to obey the laws of the land insomuch as they do not force one to violate the bible. SO here, one must go thru the formalities of state to make this covenant.
Thanks, everyone. Dave W, yours helped me understand it a lot better.
So God really requires that the law be obeyed in order for Him to unite a man and wife?
I'm not trying to argue, I'm just still kind of confused on some stuff.
So what about the laws of different lands? And with prop 8 and all now the whole American Family thing is getting so out of whack, it seems. It's a confusing time for me and I appreciate your help.
quote:
Marriage has been manifest when one (never been married or widowed) man, and one (never been married or widowed) woman consent to and complete a public wedding ceremony.
Is this really what God says? Am I getting too legalistic or technical?
_____________________________
The decisions you made today echoed into eternity.
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/5/2008 8:14:06 PM
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ta_mosquito
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quote:
Marriage has been manifest when one (never been married or widowed) man, and one (never been married or widowed) woman consent to and complete a public wedding ceremony.
Why are widowed men and women excluded?
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Tricia
"There's a fine line between being open-minded and empty-headed." ~Michael Coren
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/5/2008 10:13:21 PM
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zoebob
Posts: 8855
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I wondered too Trish. Maybe it would be more accurae if they said widowed or never married. IOW: Never only modifies married not widowed
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/5/2008 11:05:45 PM
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keepingfaith
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quote:
quote:
Marriage has been manifest when one (never been married or widowed) man, and one (never been married or widowed) woman consent to and complete a public wedding ceremony.
Is this really what God says?
Yes this is really what God says, I would recommend checking out the remarriage thread for God's laws on marriage.
And I think he meant widows and never marrieds.
_____________________________
"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends." John 15:12-13
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/6/2008 9:05:00 AM
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DaveW
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Actually, arclite may mean exactly what he/she said. Some believe that once a person has eternal life (saved) they do not die so physical death does not sever the marriage covenant.
Joh 6:51 "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
Joh 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
Joh 11:26 and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?"
_____________________________
Avatar is Saphira 5 months and Louvena at 23 months!
We are now grandparents TWICE!!
====================================
Our CD is now available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/6/2008 9:56:00 AM
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iwillfearnoevil
Posts: 4458
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From: upstate NY
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quote:
ORIGINAL: keepingfaith
And I think he meant widows and never marrieds.
and of course there are the well documented remarriage after divorce clauses not to be discussed in this thread.
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Photoblogging My Life
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RE: BIBLICAL MATRIMONY - 11/8/2008 11:26:01 AM
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starvin.artist.gurl
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Someone brought up eternal marriage. Eternal life does not equal eternal marriage. Here's what Jesus had to say about that...
Matthew 22:23 - 32
23That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question. 24"Teacher," they said, "Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and have children for him. 25Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27Finally, the woman died. 28Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?"
29Jesus replied, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'[a]? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
As far as what makes a man and woman married Here's something to consider...
Romans 13:1-2
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
That being said, lawfully you must have a public ceremony to be married. To say you can self declare marriage would go against the law and subsequently against this scripture.
Additionally, I think there is something to be said for going public. I know this is a potential can of worms, but here goes... We are commanded to get baptized in Christ as Christians. Does the act of dipping yourself in water grant eternal life? No. But it is a public act serving as an announcement to the rest of the world that you have indeed made a committment to Christ. I think marriage can be viewed similarly. God indicates in scripture numerous times the importance of community. Jesus himself made a public committment to his Father when He got baptized. Why would we not make a public committment to our spouses in marriage? When it is official and public, it is indisputable.
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