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Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/23/2008 8:30:42 PM
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ManimalX
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I know we have a thread on reasons to vote for Barack Obama, but things tend to go off on tangents in those big threads and I wanted a chance for Christian Obama supporters to biblically defend some of his specific positions. I am convicted that no Christian should lend their support to help appoint who I consider to be an unrighteous ruler. However, I am open to the possibility that I may have overlooked something in my examination of Barack Obama, so this is the chance for his supporters to lay out their best defenses of his policies.
This thread concerns homosexuality. Obama supports homosexual marriage and special rights. The Bible is very clear that homosexuality is an abomination. Your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to describe why a Christian should vote for a candidate who supports homosexuality.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: McCain and Obama on Gay Rights - 8/23/2008 8:53:12 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3583
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Please BO former church supported gay marriage, gay rights, ordained ministers, even had a n connection group for gay couples/ I would say he defends and belives in it. Biblically not possible.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: McCain and Obama on Gay Rights - 8/23/2008 9:01:50 PM
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Evangel70
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Lightshineon,
Do you have a link where Obama says that he believes "marriage" is a different arrangement than one man and one woman?
The last Rev. Jerry Farrell preached about believing one of the teletubbies was gay. Do you think everyone in his church held this belief?
_____________________________
May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus, so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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RE: McCain and Obama on Gay Rights - 8/23/2008 9:05:03 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3583
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Link to his former church. I would not attend a church for twenty years that taught, encouraged sin, if I did not believe it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Evangel70
Lightshineon,
Do you have a link where Obama says that he believes "marriage" is a different arrangement than one man and one woman?
The last Rev. Jerry Farrell preached about believing one of the teletubbies was gay. Do you think everyone in his church held this belief?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/23/2008 10:20:58 PM
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todd_t
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From: The North Woods
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quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage and special rights.
Where did you hear this? Obama has never supported gay marriage as an institution.
_____________________________
In Memoriam: 1st Sgt. Obediah Kolath, US Army, Died in Iraq War (1973-2005)
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/23/2008 10:49:22 PM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3583
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todd, todd, todd, his church for twenty years says it all. BO does not have to say it, his support of this i his worship shows it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: todd_t
quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage and special rights.
Where did you hear this? Obama has never supported gay marriage as an institution.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 12:25:14 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1952
Joined: 10/12/2007
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
todd, todd, todd, his church for twenty years says it all. BO does not have to say it, his support of this i his worship shows it.
Can you link me to a news article where two men or two women were married in this church? A slight majority of the members of the United Methodist Church I went to college at probably supported civil gay marriage on 15th-amendment grounds, but that doesn't mean we supported it in the church or affirmed homosexual immorality.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 12:25:59 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3583
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Look up his churches website.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
todd, todd, todd, his church for twenty years says it all. BO does not have to say it, his support of this i his worship shows it.
Can you link me to a news article where two men or two women were married in this church?
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 12:34:07 AM
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blessedinnyc
Posts: 1952
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quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
Look up his churches website.
quote:
ORIGINAL: blessedinnyc
quote:
ORIGINAL: lightshineon
todd, todd, todd, his church for twenty years says it all. BO does not have to say it, his support of this i his worship shows it.
Can you link me to a news article where two men or two women were married in this church?
Nuh-uh. You are making the claim; please provide the link to the page. The only thing I can come up with on "Trinity United Church of Christ" and "gay marriage" is a 2005 commercial by the UCC that shows a black woman, a guy in a wheelchair, and two guys holding hands getting turned away by a bouncer guarding a church door.
Since you obviously know more about this than us, please provide a link.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 1:14:51 AM
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ManimalX
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My question still hasn't been answered. I will rephrase it:
How is it biblically acceptable for a leader to support anything that makes homosexuality both easier to practice and more accepted culturally?
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 1:34:49 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 717
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
I am convicted that no Christian should lend their support to help appoint who I consider to be an unrighteous ruler.
I consider ?
You have yet to prove, other than just labeling him as others have and as I have done just to humor some of you, that he would be an "unrighteous leader."
People here have insisted he wants to be called the Messiah, without offering legitimate proof, but since they insist, so be it, I'll play their silly game. People insist on highlighting his middle name as a way of implying his connection to Sadaam Hussein and other terrorists. Fine, I'll play that silly game as well, since there has been no legitimate proof offered that he has any ties to Islam or to terrorists. You have labeled him wicked, and now an unrighteous ruler, however, you have offered no proof that he would be more wicked or unrighteous than the other choice we have. But you insist on labeling him as such, and will not advance the debate further without having everyone here acknowlege that he is wicked and unrighteous, so I'll play that silly game too.
So, Barack Obama will now be:
The Messiah, B. Hussein O., The Wicked, Unrighteous Ruler
Labels people here have insisted on giving him, assumably in an attempt to shame the rest of us Christians into not voting for someone who carries all this baggage. Unfortunately, despite your frustration, none of you have proven sufficiently that he deserves this baggage. And when you start threads and base your "argument" on statements like:
quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage and special rights.
Which is an outright lie, you lose credibility. Especially if you continue to try to defend this accusation (which I'm sure you will try). People here aren't stupid. You've got to prove your case with people here, dude. Jedi mind tricks won't work with the people of this forum.
- Julius
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 2:34:06 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5380
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
You have labeled him wicked, and now an unrighteous ruler, however, you have offered no proof that he would be more wicked or unrighteous than the other choice we have.
I wasn't aware that the actions of the other guy determine rather or not the actions of Obama are wicked or not...
quote:
Which is an outright lie, you lose credibility. Especially if you continue to try to defend this accusation (which I'm sure you will try). People here aren't stupid. You've got to prove your case with people here, dude. Jedi mind tricks won't work with the people of this forum.
Obama quotes regarding homosexuality...
http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Principles_+_Values
Being gay or lesbian is not a choice. (Nov 2007) Lie #1
Gay rights movement is somewhat like civil rights movement. (Aug 2007) Lie#1a
Homosexuality no more immoral than heterosexuality. (Oct 2007) Lie #2
We need strong civil unions, not just weak civil unions. (Aug 2007) <---- Support for homosexuality and them being in a
married state or whatever you call it... So it's not called marriage, that doesn't change the fact of what he is supporting, which at the end of the day is a sin and one that is daily life of rebellion against God... How does repent of such a thing?
Opposed 1996 Illinois DOMA bill
I opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It should be repealed and I will vote for its repeal on the Senate floor. I will appeal any proposal to amend the U.S. constitution to ban gays and lesbians from marrying. I know how important the issue of equal rights is to the LGBT community. I share your sense of urgency.
Opposes CA Prop. 8, one-man-one-woman marriage. (Jul 2008)
Q: You have said in previous debates that it is up to individual religious denominations to decide whether or not to recognize same-sex marriage. What place does the church have in government-sanctioned civil marriages?
A: It is my strong belief that the government has to treat all citizens equally. I don't think that the church should be making these determinations when it comes to legal rights conferred by the state. I do think that individual denominations have the right to make their own decisions as to whether they recognize same sex couples. My denomination, United Church of Christ, does. Other denominations may make a decision, and obviously, part of keeping a separation of churches and state is also to make sure that churches have the right to exercise their freedom of religion.
Source: 2007 HRC/LOGO debate on gay issues Aug 9, 2007
His (former) church recognize same sex couples and he doesn't take issue with it...
It seem rather clear Mr. Obama has an grave issue regarding homosexuality...
He denies it's a sin.... Compares it to what God ordained to be right in His sight, heterosexuality... Support civil unions of gays, which is really marriage with another name. And knowingly attended a church that recognize same sex unions and didn't take issue with it...
Julius, can you deny that Mr. Obama support homosexuality and even goes so far as to give God's stamp of approval given his comments about?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 2:53:39 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1213
Joined: 10/25/2005
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Homosexuality, an abominable form of sexual immorality, is sin.
Abortion, an abominable form of murder, is sin.
For a ruler to be righteous, he must do away with sin and evil in the sphere of his authority.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 2:56:16 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 717
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quote:
ORIGINAL: SovereignIsHe
Julius, can you deny that Mr. Obama support homosexuality and even goes so far as to give God's stamp of approval given his comments about?
Specifically, I was addressing the claim of the OP:
quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage
Which he stated he dosen't. But if "supporting" homosexuality is to allow them to coexist with the same rights everyone else has, then which candidate dosen't "support" homosexuality? Which candidate proposes outlawing homosexuality? Given the choices we have and the similarity of their views on this subject, why is this even a differentiating issue?
- Julius
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 3:01:42 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1213
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: online
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage and special rights.
Which is an outright lie, you lose credibility. Especially if you continue to try to defend this accusation (which I'm sure you will try). People here aren't stupid. You've got to prove your case with people here, dude. Jedi mind tricks won't work with the people of this forum.
- Julius
From the 2004 Democratic National Platform for America:
quote:
We support full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and seek equal
responsibilities, benefits, and protections for these families.
In other words, "We support making homosexuality easier to practice and more culturally acceptable".
Barack Obama is the Democratic Party representative, and as such is responsible for towing the party line as closely as possible.
Barack Obama said on CNN's 'Larry King Live': "I don't think that homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral."
Barack Obama opposes the Defense of Marriage Act.
Barack Obama would make it both easier and more culturally acceptable to be a homosexual.
Barack Obama said that decisions about marriage should be left to the state, but then opposed California's Proposition 8, defining marriage as between one man and one woman.
Barack Obama said it is OK to expose 6-year-olds to gay couples because, "they know already"
Barack Obama supports health benefits for gay couples, again making it easier and more culturally acceptable to practice homosexuality.
Barack Obama wants special rights for homosexuals and supports ENDA and inclusion of homosexuality in anti-discrimination laws.
Am I still a liar?
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 3:02:42 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 717
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Homosexuality, an abominable form of sexual immorality, is sin.
Abortion, an abominable form of murder, is sin.
For a ruler to be righteous, he must do away with sin and evil in the sphere of his authority.
Get some sleep, then later on, give the audience some examples of righteous rulers and tell me what McCain has said or done to make you believe he would be a righteous ruler and that he would "do away with sin and evil in the sphere of his authority"? Specifically regarding homosexuality?
-Julius
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 3:23:42 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1213
Joined: 10/25/2005
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John McCain supports CA prop. 8, defining marriage as between one man and one woman
John McCain believes states should decide issues of marriage and voted for his state to define marriage as between one man and one woman.
John McCain scored a dismal 33% on the Human Rights Campaign (a major GLBT organization), compared with the HRC's full endorsement of Barack Obama.
Perfect? No. Light years beyond Obama? Absolutely.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 3:32:43 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5380
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
Specifically, I was addressing the claim of the OP:
I understand that, but your response seem to deny the fact Mr. Obama supports homosexuality in general... As well to say he doesn't support gay marriage is simply a matter of terminology... He supports gay unions... Which is gay marriage with a different label to appease people... You think God is fooled by the label change?
quote:
Which he stated he dosen't. But if "supporting" homosexuality is to allow them to coexist with the same rights everyone else has, then which candidate dosen't "support" homosexuality? Which candidate proposes outlawing homosexuality? Given the choices we have and the similarity of their views on this subject, why is this even a differentiating issue?
It's not simply about a differentiating issue, but what is wicked... Mr. McCain support for what is wicked or not has nothing to do with the actions of Mr. Obama. You can defend his support for homosexuality by pointing out the faults of the other guys... You can say there is no real difference but that doesn't remove the issue of what is wicked.
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 3:37:48 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 717
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
quote:
ORIGINAL: saved9201
quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage and special rights.
Which is an outright lie, you lose credibility. Especially if you continue to try to defend this accusation (which I'm sure you will try). People here aren't stupid. You've got to prove your case with people here, dude. Jedi mind tricks won't work with the people of this forum.
- Julius
From the 2004 Democratic National Platform for America:
quote:
We support full inclusion of gay and lesbian families in the life of our nation and seek equal
responsibilities, benefits, and protections for these families.
In other words, "We support making homosexuality easier to practice and more culturally acceptable".
Barack Obama is the Democratic Party representative, and as such is responsible for towing the party line as closely as possible.
Barack Obama said on CNN's 'Larry King Live': "I don't think that homosexuals are immoral any more than I think heterosexuals are immoral."
Barack Obama opposes the Defense of Marriage Act.
Barack Obama would make it both easier and more culturally acceptable to be a homosexual.
Barack Obama said that decisions about marriage should be left to the state, but then opposed California's Proposition 8, defining marriage as between one man and one woman.
Barack Obama said it is OK to expose 6-year-olds to gay couples because, "they know already"
Barack Obama supports health benefits for gay couples, again making it easier and more culturally acceptable to practice homosexuality.
Barack Obama wants special rights for homosexuals and supports ENDA and inclusion of homosexuality in anti-discrimination laws.
Am I still a liar?
You want to clear your good name, show me proof of this:
quote:
Obama supports homosexual marriage
in light of the fact that The Messiah, B. Hussein O. The Wicked, Unrighteous Ruler has said he believes marriage is between a man and a woman.
Oh yeah, extrapolation from the Democratic Platform, diversionary tactics like providing proof of everything else except what you stated and Jedi mind tricks aren't acceptable.
- Julius
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 3:48:02 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1213
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: online
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Obama can "say" whatever he wants, but his actions are contrary to his speech.
John and I both just provided you a whole list of proof that Obama supports homosexual marriage. One prominent bit of evidence is that Obama claims that states should decide marriage definitions, and then opposed a state proposition to define marriage as between one man and one woman. Obama also received full endorsement of the HRC, an Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender organization that advocates gay marriage. If they can recognize Obama's support for their positions, why can't you?
Since you seem to get hung up on terms and words rather than definition and action, would you prefer that I state, "Barack Obama supports the homosexual agenda", instead of, "homosexual marriage"?
Barack Obama is the Democratic Party's nominee. Why is it irrelevant to to bring up the Democratic Party Platform?
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 8:36:41 AM
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saved9201
Posts: 717
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
Obama can "say" whatever he wants, but his actions are contrary to his speech.
And I've concluded that your "actions" thus far are contrary to your speech, when you wrote, quote:
However, I am open to the possibility that I may have overlooked something in my examination of Barack Obama
You are open to nothing and (in your mind) you have overlooked nothing. So what's the point?
quote:
John and I both just provided you a whole list of proof that Obama supports homosexual marriage. One prominent bit of evidence...
One prominent bit of evidence that you're not "open" to anything is your forcing anyone participating in this "game" to accept as gospel, you and John's so-called "proof", as irrefutable. Another is dismissing what The Messiah, B. Hussein O. The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler actually says.
quote:
If they can recognize Obama's support for their positions, why can't you?
So, because someone endorses a candidate, do we now assume that they recognize that the candidate supports ALL their positions? So since you support McCain, should we assume he supports all your positions? How bout Nat'l Right to Life? NRA? I guess they don't get his endorsement unless he supports ALL their positions. So, even though The Messiah, B. Hussein O. The Wicked Unrighteous Ruler has publically stated that he opposes gay marriage, he MUST really be in favor of it because a group that supports gay marriage endorses him. Interesting bit of logic. Are we forced to accept that logic too if we are allowed to continue this game?
quote:
Since you seem to get hung up on terms and words rather than definition and action, would you prefer that I state, "Barack Obama supports the homosexual agenda", instead of, "homosexual marriage"?
Yeah. Bad habit of mine. I kinda get "hung up" on facts and accuracy sometimes. But don't worry about me. I've taken myself out of this game. Maybe others would like to play. By your rules and logic, of course.
quote:
Barack Obama is the Democratic Party's nominee. Why is it irrelevant to to bring up the Democratic Party Platform?
Because the question was about The Messiah B. Hussein O. The Wicked, Unrighteous Ruler, not the democratic party platform. You want to start a thread "Biblically defend the democratic party platform: homosexuality"? I think we already have a one-stop thread that probably beats that subject to death but, maybe if you give them some rules and guidelines and logic like you did here, you can close that one down and claim victory.
Like you're about to do here.
Problem is, ManimalX, despite what you claimed earlier, you don't want to change people's minds, you just want to win.
Congratulations. Medal ceremony to follow.
-Julius
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 8:57:03 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5595
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
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The positions of the candidates on this subject are fairly well laid our HERE
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 4:19:14 PM
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Thessa
Posts: 811
Status: offline
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There isnt a biblical way to defend Obama on homosexuality. Its a sin according to the bible and the word of God/Jesus.
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RE: Biblically Defend Obama: Homosexuality - 8/24/2008 4:29:28 PM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5380
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Thessa
There isnt a biblical way to defend Obama on homosexuality. Its a sin according to the bible and the word of God/Jesus.
Of course there isn't... That's why those who support Mr. Obama have to try and make it where his support for homosexuality has a very low radar cross section... Problem is Mr. Obama with his words and deeds hasn't helped their cause and one get a very nice fat return regarding Mr. Obama's homosexual agenda...
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 29:12 If a ruler hearken to lies, all his servants are wicked.
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