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This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 4:31:46 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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Subtitled: Obama the messiah and Jesus the comedian...
Yes, these are two names that I have heard folks say here, one lifts a man up to a name that only Jesus deserves and the other puts Jesus down in some common buffoonery slapstick name.
the role of a comedian is to entertain you, to make you laugh. Jesus never had those missions in mind when he came to the earth. He came to do the will of hte Father and be obedient to the cross.
Yes, Jesus may have used metaphor or simile or hyperbole in his speech to the common man so that they could understand his great teaching, but I have been awake thinking about this... I hope the mods dont move this yet, because I really want you to think about our great Savior,,, who he really is - perhaps when you do you will not jokingly refer to our Lord and Savior as anything but the great names He deserves, and you wont lift up a man even jokingly or sarcastically as a messiah.
The names of the Lord in the Bible - some of them are - God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Son of God, Son of man, Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, Rabbi, Rabboni, Teacher, Master, Savior, Lord, Healer, holy, Lamb of God, Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, Good Shepherd, Great High Priest, who ever lives and pleads for me, he has a name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus ever kneee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, Messiah, My Beloved Son in Whom I Am Well Pleased, the lamb that was led to the slaughter.
there are more, but if you think about our dear sweet precious Jesus, and how high and holy He is, and his attributes, like he is meek, humble, obedient to the cross, his mission was to glorify the Father and be glorified by the Father, to heal the sick, to bring life out of death, to bring hope to the ailing, to bring joy of the Lord to our hearts, to conquer sin, to die on the cross and take the wrath of God upon himself, to be raised from the dead and conquer death, death holds no power anymore, to live a sinless life, to be obedient to the Father, even unto death, I hope you see that He is due much much more respect.
now, after reading that, I hope that you still will not jokingly irreverently call any man, obama or otherwise a messiah.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 6:41:53 AM
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godzgyrl05
Posts: 7
Joined: 10/21/2008
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AMEN!
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 7:57:31 AM
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StephK
Posts: 2236
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southwest Louisiana
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Tell it to his followers. I'm tired of the way you have kept trying to stifle those of us who see what is going on and discussing it because you happen to like him. You have to deal with the adulation and adoration of his deluded supporters not me. Some of us see some red flags based on similar people rising to power with a messianic complex. Messianic complexes are real and can be dangerous.
Messianic complex is a state in which the individual believes themselves to be, or destined to become, the saviour of the particular field, a group, an event, a time period, or in an extreme scenario, the world. This could also be the state in which a group views an individual as a messiah, such as followers of a cult leader. The cult leader doesn't have to claim to be a messiah, but if he is treated as such by his followers, it can also be classified as such.
_____________________________
Stephanie
The heart of the wise inclines to the right but the heart of the fool to the left.
Even as he walks along the road, the fool lacks sense and shows everyone how stupid he is. ~ Ecc. 10:2-3
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 8:45:46 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
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quote:
ORIGINAL: StephK
Tell it to his followers. I'm tired of the way you have kept trying to stifle those of us who see what is going on and discussing it because you happen to like him. You have to deal with the adulation and adoration of his deluded supporters not me. Some of us see some red flags based on similar people rising to power with a messianic complex. Messianic complexes are real and can be dangerous.
Messianic complex is a state in which the individual believes themselves to be, or destined to become, the saviour of the particular field, a group, an event, a time period, or in an extreme scenario, the world. This could also be the state in which a group views an individual as a messiah, such as followers of a cult leader. The cult leader doesn't have to claim to be a messiah, but if he is treated as such by his followers, it can also be classified as such.
Steph thanks for your post. I only plea to those of us who write here, who call themselves Christians.. we cannot control the world, and what the world will say, but we can control what we confess with our mouth.
remember the old days, 1st century chirstians, the soldier walks up to a group of Christians, and orders them to say "Caeaser is Lord".. If they do not, they get their head chopped off. The Christians refused to say even that. they got their head chopped off.
The 3 children were told to worship Baal. they would not. They got thrown in the fire for not confessing that.
i dare not even confess jokingly anything other than what i wrote above. not even in jest. And i dont give the christians a pass just because the world is doing it. since when do we agree with the world?
No excuse Steph.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 8:59:40 AM
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TMeeks
Posts: 1935
Joined: 1/27/2007
Status: offline
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IMA_Christian,
Even the Bible tells us that many pretenders to the roll of messiah will come. It was no accident that Hitler talked of the 1000 year reign of the Third Reich. What people have responded against is the imagery that Obama has used and the adoration that he has generated that go above that deserved of a mere mortal. There is definitely, at least in some, a messianic hope in Obama.
The best weapon to combat a messianic pretender is pointing out their pretentions with the distain that it deserves. And, that is what you are seeing. If it were ignored then it would only grow.
As for ridicule of Jesus, you haven't seen anything yet. If Obama wins, the arrogance of the radical left will know no limits. Remember the old fashion See-Saw? Remember that for the most part each side would rise and fall in turn. But, sometimes the balance was such that one child could hold their side down so that it left the child on the other end helpless to regain momentum. The See-Saw was stuck in place. Held hostage by the child with the leverage.
This election could be the TIPPING POINT, that like that old fashion See-Saw where the radical left gains that advantage. And, no matter what the lip service, the radical left hates Jesus Christ. There is not a single country that has tlted in that direction where Christianity is not ridiculed and persecuted. We will also find, as Ayers own book attests, that the radical left loves Palestinian and Islamic causes and hates Israel. As the most radical elements start coming out of the closet you will see a radical shift in this country's position toward Israel.
As one democrat political consultant observed this morning, Obama's campaign was brilliant in moving him from the left where he began to the middle in that he could to be left of Hillary to win the primaries and but needed to move to the right for the general election. Admissions like this show just how confident the left is. One doesn't admit deception unless they think they have pulled that deception off so well that it won't matter if some of the decieved hear it.
If he wins you will find out WHY we used ridicule to point out the absurdity of the messianic imagery that Obama used as part of his deceptive tactics.
_____________________________
Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 9:08:14 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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hi TMeeks - well today in fact i heard a sermon from the Book of Timothy about in the last days things are going to get out of hand, as far as immoralty and no love for God, sounds like today.
We shall see in a few hours who will win, if God allows him to win, it will still bein God's plan to make the world go as the bible predicted. you know God chooses vessels of wrath and vessels of good for his providence, wrath, and mercy on the nations.
i dont know the reference, but it says "if my people which are called by My name shall humble themlseves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will i hear from heaven and will heal their land and forgive their sin" (from memory).
i wonder if that can still happen or if america has gone over the edge. thats why i wonder, depending on who will win, time will tell - will this president be a curse on America or will God have mercy? time will tell.
i daresay that persecution might even be good for america, with all of its current emergent churches, worldliness, Todd Bentleys, TBN, sleeping chirstians, etc. it might wake us up like what persecution does in other parts of the world. We have it so good here... compared to China, where if i am not mistaken, chirstians are dying for their faith.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 9:09:24 AM
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lightshineon
Posts: 3462
Joined: 4/11/2005
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I would never call Obama, my Lord. I would not even vote for him, I cannot be a party to anyone (Obama)that would not even quench the words of the kooks that call him that. In the book of Revelation an Angel even told John, he was a fellow servant, and not to worship him. It also happened in acts when the apostles tore their clothes. when people were calling them gods, say " See we are mere men, like you." Obama, has never told his followers not to call him that. He wants people to do this I believe.
_____________________________
Remember, whenever you have pearls, there are always plenty of pigs nearby who would be glad to step on them.
F.T., 2007
Be sure you vote for those, whose views you want your children to emulate.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 9:12:56 AM
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Acts29
Posts: 369
Joined: 1/14/2007
Status: offline
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This attitude of Obama and his followers concerns me more than some of his policies, as well as the people who do not take it seriously.
Good post Steph
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 9:32:48 AM
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ManimalX
Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
Subtitled: Obama the messiah and Jesus the comedian...
Yes, these are two names that I have heard folks say here, one lifts a man up to a name that only Jesus deserves and the other puts Jesus down in some common buffoonery slapstick name.
the role of a comedian is to entertain you, to make you laugh. Jesus never had those missions in mind when he came to the earth. He came to do the will of hte Father and be obedient to the cross.
Yes, Jesus may have used metaphor or simile or hyperbole in his speech to the common man so that they could understand his great teaching, but I have been awake thinking about this... I hope the mods dont move this yet, because I really want you to think about our great Savior,,, who he really is - perhaps when you do you will not jokingly refer to our Lord and Savior as anything but the great names He deserves, and you wont lift up a man even jokingly or sarcastically as a messiah.
The names of the Lord in the Bible - some of them are - God, King of Kings, Lord of Lords, Son of God, Son of man, Wonderful, Counselor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace, Rabbi, Rabboni, Teacher, Master, Savior, Lord, Healer, holy, Lamb of God, Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, Good Shepherd, Great High Priest, who ever lives and pleads for me, he has a name which is above every name that at the name of Jesus ever kneee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, Messiah, My Beloved Son in Whom I Am Well Pleased, the lamb that was led to the slaughter.
there are more, but if you think about our dear sweet precious Jesus, and how high and holy He is, and his attributes, like he is meek, humble, obedient to the cross, his mission was to glorify the Father and be glorified by the Father, to heal the sick, to bring life out of death, to bring hope to the ailing, to bring joy of the Lord to our hearts, to conquer sin, to die on the cross and take the wrath of God upon himself, to be raised from the dead and conquer death, death holds no power anymore, to live a sinless life, to be obedient to the Father, even unto death, I hope you see that He is due much much more respect.
now, after reading that, I hope that you still will not jokingly irreverently call any man, obama or otherwise a messiah.
IMA,
If you are talking about me writing that Jesus actually has a sense of humor, I am a bit insulted and disappointed in you. You are overreacting and putting words in my mouth. I NEVER "put Jesus down in some common buffoonery slapstick name." Jesus has a sense of humor. He is sarcastic. He is ironic. He is satirical. If for some reason you can't manage to add this to your list of names, that is your mistake NOT MINE. Please don't insult me by accusing my of degrading Jesus just because I don't do the same things you do or think the same way you think. I appreciate your respect and honor for God's names, but you are ignoring part of who God is to dismiss His humor and cheer. Tell me this: can you picture Jesus giving a good belly laugh in your mind's eye? If you cant, you need to ask yourself why. Jesus was fully human also, and part of that experience is humor. He didn't just always walk around dour and sour and frowning and angry.
Regarding "messiah": I wrote this twice already, but maybe you didn't see it: "messiah" is just a word that means "chosen one" or "anointed for a purpose". It is not some magical name that only Jesus gets to have. Yes, He is the ultimate definition of this word, but it is just a descriptor. Following your logic we are not allowed to call anybody or anything teacher, lamb, shepherd, healer, mighty, wonderful, king, master, etc. etc. etc. because these words were used to describe Jesus at one time. This is just a silly assertion, there is no getting around it.
Good day.
_____________________________
"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed." - 2nd Peter 3:10
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 9:49:57 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ManimalX
IMA,
If you are talking about me writing that Jesus actually has a sense of humor, I am a bit insulted and disappointed in you. You are overreacting and putting words in my mouth. I NEVER "put Jesus down in some common buffoonery slapstick name." Jesus has a sense of humor. He is sarcastic. He is ironic. He is satirical. If for some reason you can't manage to add this to your list of names, that is your mistake NOT MINE. Please don't insult me by accusing my of degrading Jesus just because I don't do the same things you do or think the same way you think. I appreciate your respect and honor for God's names, but you are ignoring part of who God is to dismiss His humor and cheer. Tell me this: can you picture Jesus giving a good belly laugh in your mind's eye? If you cant, you need to ask yourself why. Jesus was fully human also, and part of that experience is humor. He didn't just always walk around dour and sour and frowning and angry.
Regarding "messiah": I wrote this twice already, but maybe you didn't see it: "messiah" is just a word that means "chosen one" or "anointed for a purpose". It is not some magical name that only Jesus gets to have. Yes, He is the ultimate definition of this word, but it is just a descriptor. Following your logic we are not allowed to call anybody or anything teacher, lamb, shepherd, healer, mighty, wonderful, king, master, etc. etc. etc. because these words were used to describe Jesus at one time. This is just a silly assertion, there is no getting around it.
Good day.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
sorry manimal, not picking on you...this is not a post against you.....true you were the one who considered that jesus was a type of commedian, and to me a comedian is one who's job it is to entertain and to make people laugh. but i have been wanting to put up this topic even before you said what you had to say. i really cannot see jesus as giving someone a huge belly laugh, actually Jesus came to convict the world of sin, and men are NOT supposed to laugh if they are sinners and need to repent. they in fact need to have sorrow for thier sins. wait.. in Psalms 2, it says God laughs at those who rail against the Lord. (((but it is in derision)) I would not put jesus in the same cateogy as jay Leno, Dane cook, or other comedians, that i cant think of thier name, who often use pornographic and wordly humor these days.. you cant even listen to them for 2 minutes before they start swearing and using God's name in vain.
Manimal, a lot of peopel have a Santa Claus image of God, and that is wrong. That is making an idol in one's own eye.. we ought to look to see what Scripture says about God.. what his attributes are... a lot of churches today paint God like he is love, love love, but God is holy holy holy. (just as the cherubims who fly around God's throne what they say all day - holy holy holy).
if you can find scripture that backs up your claims, I'd still be pleased to see them. I dont think there are any that give us a belly laugh. True, Jesus was a warm hearted person whos charismatic personality drew many to him, incluidng children, but to equate him as a comedian, no i think that may be over the top. He did tell stories and he had to use comparisons to the common man so they could understand his parables,,, he related to them - therefore he talked about everyday things, but i dont believe he used comedy to get his point across.
so manimal, it is a bit of a coincidence that i am writing this topic the day after some of these thigns were said, however, i had been thinking about it for a while, and i did not want to write it on that other person's topic. this is really bugging me about how people make the things of God so cavalier, so common, so disrespectful... and I dont feel I serve a dour, crabby God, I feel the joy of the Lord many times, but yet when it comes to God Himself, we ought to tremble at his feet, in awe and respect.
Remember Moses when he met God on Mt Sinai, he trembled, he had to remove his shoes, as he was on holy ground, he could not even stand,, he may have even got down on the ground and bowed low.
Just somthing to think about, and if you could provide some bible verses that say jesus was such a person as you describe, please list them for me.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 11:22:55 AM
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SovereignIsHe
Posts: 5940
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Northern Califonria
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: IMA_CHRISTIAN
i dare not even confess jokingly anything other than what i wrote above. not even in jest. And i dont give the christians a pass just because the world is doing it. since when do we agree with the world?
No excuse Steph.
Interesting comments... Do you apply them to eveything or just this topic?
_____________________________
John
Proverbs 12:10 A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 11:32:46 AM
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IMA_CHRISTIAN
Posts: 1700
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
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Hi John - I apply this line of reasoning to this topic.. the issue about people agreeing with the world on a name that that person does not deserve.
_____________________________
Just give us peace, Lord.
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RE: This Election Has Gotten Out of Hand - 11/4/2008 1:02:40 PM
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davemiller7
Posts: 1086
Joined: 3/5/2008
From: NC via NY
Status: offline
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I refer to Obama as the Obamessiah. The word "messiah," not capitalized, means "anointed one" and does not refer to The Messiah, Jesus Christ. Therefore, this is not blasphemy. It is an expression of contempt for someone, who willingly accepts the title from Louis Farrakhan (sp?) and others, and does nothing to reject it.
_____________________________
-Dave
The Prayer of Protection
The light of God surrounds me,
The love of God enfolds me,
The power of God protects me,
The presence of God watches over me.
Wherever I am, God is.
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