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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 11:03:31 AM
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gambit
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You have to look at what the Sabbath was created for.
Rest.
In Hebrews 4:7 it says "Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY...
It's not referring to a certain day anymore, but today and everyday.
The believer ceases his efforts to gain salvation by his own works and rests in the finished work of Christ on the cross (NIV text note).
Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST".
Notice Jesus didn't say to those who are weary and burdened to wait until the 7th day to rest, but to rest in him.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 11:43:51 AM
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rockv12
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Isaiah 66:22-23
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith Jehovah, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith Jehovah."
Why is sabbath mentioned in this verse if we are no longer going to be acknowledging it?
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 12:17:08 PM
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Diaconeo
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If we subject ourselves to the Law by obeying the Law of the Sabbath and worship together corperately on Saturday (the Seventh Day according to Jewish custom) then we must obey the whole of the Law.
I must caution on this, however, because if we do, then we become subject to the curse of the Law and are in need of a Saviour all over again, and Christ cannot be sacrafised again. We fall into the same category as the Judeaizers of the early church. Do we also circumcize our boys on the eighth day? What other part of the Law must we obey and keep?
The Law was written to the Jews and to the nation of Israel, God's chosen people at the time. Gentiles were never included in the ordinances of the Law unless they wanted to live among the Jews and have their sons marry with in the nation. Being a non-Jew myself, I am not subject to the Law, but rather the Law of Christ, thus I am not obliged to worship and keep the Sabbath on Saturday. Our Sabbath is in Christ so our rest is in Him and everyday is to be kept holy. As Paul taught in regarding an day above an other "Each person must be convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observed it for the Lord...." (Rm 14:5-6) Chrsitians in Islamic countries observe it on Fridays, many in Israel do so on Saturday. Friday, Saturday, Sunday, they are all just days. Every day is the same as any others.
In Christ,
Matthew
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 12:44:44 PM
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saintgrace
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Worship God every day... 24/7... then there will be no question as to what day is "right".
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 12:52:21 PM
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gambit
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rockv12
Isaiah 66:22-23
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith Jehovah, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith Jehovah."
Why is sabbath mentioned in this verse if we are no longer going to be acknowledging it?
Do you actually keep New Moon festivals? If not, then why be so demanding about keeping a sabbath day when you do not obey the New Moon requirements?
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 3:19:45 PM
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Chief
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quote:
Weekly Sabbath keeping, what ever the day, is not taught or required for Christians. Sabbath in no way was transferred to Sunday. That is not scriptural sound doctrine. It is tradition of men. Bob,
I have not gone far enough that you should have a warrant to shoot me down. I was hoping that you would hear me out a little further and be patient. I was establishing the principles of the Moral law but since I see that there is a need to jump queue the whole process I might as well accommodate.
I am tempted to pour everything on in one post so let us start with your statement, "It is tradition of men". I agree. It was. But that is not all, I also believe that it was a tradition of inspired men. It was a tradition by the apostles. But are traditions established of men altogether wrong? If they were tradition of men who did not have the inspired authority of God, it must not be followed.
2Th 2:15 therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions, which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
I wish there is a one-stop verse to silent all SDA advocates but there is none. Just like the rest of the commandments in the epistles, we see the moral law implied. Many times they do not enumerate it right, leave out a commandment or just plain apply it, similar to the 4th commandment. Since they are written in our hearts the law has no formal form but now is a living law. In Heb 10:25 we see the law implied.
Heb 10:25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is...
Sabbath in old Israel is not only a day of rest but also a day of assembly, a day of exhortation, a day of prayer. And the following statement further reinforces this that the neglect of it is sin (v26). Similarly if we are in require confessing our sins even as believers it goes to show that laws are still in place that require obedience.
I am not here to contend against the statement "everyday is the Sabbath". I will just let it lie for now by saying that I agree in a sense that we are now rested from the labor or the law, burden of sin and in faith with God so we rejoice and worship God daily. Individually we can apply that. But that does not altogether rub away the 4th commandment that we as the true children of God should individually and corporately apply.
The 4th commandment requires six days of labor and one day of rest. Isn't there an aching in the Christian heart to work hard and be all we can be for God and isn't there also a wanting to rest at least one day of the week? Isn’t that the Holy Ghost in us instructing and using our consciences to act as if it they are still imperative?
It requires one day to be Holy. In our hearts we all want this to be daily and not labor. But that is forthcoming when we will finally be at rest from sin and the labors of this world. While were are here we are enjoined to work that even Paul would say that it is not virtue to not labor with one’s hand. He commended himself as a workingman and he condemned those who did not by condemning them to hunger – he who does not work does not eat. If labor is not abrogated, so must be the setting aside of a day for the Lord.
God instituted the 4th commandment as a Moral Law because worked, God rested and he hallowed it – “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it”. Did the commandment originate from Mt. Sinai? No. It originated from the day the world was created. It originated from the sense of Divine labor and Divine rest. God rested not man but God that if we were made from the image of God, the Decalogue would just be a reflection of the same image that are in us. So, if God had worked and had rested, so should we as God’s image bearers. The Decalogue may just have been on a stone but it is a testament of who we were and who we should be the holy image bearers of God. We even see in Exodus 16 prior to the ratification of God’s covenant at Mt. Sinai, Moses requiring his people to rest for one. He even required that manna be gather enough for each day but on the 6th day gather for 2 days because the next day there shall be not gathering.
Now to get back on your real disagreements to the institution of the Lord’s day, I submit that the Gospels did not put the words “first day of the week” by accident in regards to the Lord’s resurrection. First, it underscores that fact that He was to rise on the 3rd day and secondly, it underscores remembrance on the part of believers. On the same night Jesus appeared in the midst of the apostles 8 (Jewish) days after, which is an equivalent of a week, the same exact day, they were gathered ones again and were in the presence of Jesus. A new pattern had emerged in the infant church. If this is man-only tradition it seems that the Lord is placing His seal of approval on it because it is also here recorded that we see Jesus being with them, gathered.
John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
The disciples first began the commemorative day of the Lord’s resurrection traditionally on the same day - His resurrection day.
On the same day they are assembled, the principles of the weekly Sabbath were applied such as the corporate performance of ordinances and hearing of God’s word;
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
The setting aside of aid to the needy;
1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
The examples of the NT suggest that believers were applying the good principles of the Sabbath on the first day of the week corporately instead of doing it on the last day of the week. The NT believers did not remove themselves from the principle that Sabbath is a day of mercy, necessity, gathering, worship, prayer and ordinances. We may not have to follow the external Jewish regulations but we are not to undermine the fact that there must still be on a weekly basis a day dedicated for the Lord.
It should be no mystery why John would call a day “the Lord’s day”. It is the day of Christ’s triumph over the grave and similar to the principles of Sabbath, it is the day of the Lord’s resting from His work.
When Christ rose from the dead he had secured for us a salvation that can never be removed. His work was done. His resurrection signified God’s satisfaction in everything that He did. Similar to the Lord’s satisfaction in everything that He created.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:10 ….he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Sabbath is all about God finishing his work and the Lord’s Day is all about Christ doing the same. Similar principles apply to both the individual and the church. The Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are both commemorative of the days God and the Lord rested from their labor. A day of rest, worship, good works and a day separate from the rest.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 3:23:23 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saintgrace
Worship God every day... 24/7... then there will be no question as to what day is "right".
Do you keep one holy for Him at least? One that you do not have to do anything but to worship Him the whole day through. Not thinking or doing your job? Does that ever happen? At least one dedicated day a week?
Not worrying what is the right one is not the problem is acknowledging if there should be ever one for God on a weekly basis.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 3:30:35 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
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Rockv quoted and said:
Isaiah 66:22-23
quote:
"For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith Jehovah, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith Jehovah."
Why is sabbath mentioned in this verse if we are no longer going to be acknowledging it?
Lets see if I can shed some light on your question. Isaiah says some pretty pronounced things in his writings. Look at chapter 65:17-20. He is there talking about the New Earth and telling that man would live to be over 100. Jesus says that I will have eternal life in the new earth.
Chapter 66: 24 says after we bow before the Lord on the Sabbath and new moons we will go out and observe the dead bodies of those who didn't make it. Well I guess they did make it to the New Jerusalem because they will be there. Just not alive and they must not decompose because the worm will not die and the fire will not be quenched, but the fire will never burn them up. Now how do I know this? Well Isaiah says that "from one New moon to another and from one Sabbath to another" and he doesn't put a time limit on how long we are to observe this phenomenon. I have to assume from those two chapters that it will be until I die at over 100 in in the New Earth.  Oh yes, maybe the dead are out there worshiping Him too. Verse 23 did say it was all flesh that come.
Is this what you have been taught elseware in the scriptures?  How can you take two verses out of two chapters that do not jive with the New Testament scriptures and build a case for keeping Sabbath in New Covenant times?
Maybe all those verses in Isaiah can somehow be explained, but certainly they don't point to the times we are living in. 
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 3:35:02 PM
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gambit
Posts: 1209
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Chief
quote:
ORIGINAL: saintgrace
Worship God every day... 24/7... then there will be no question as to what day is "right".
Do you keep one holy for Him at least? One that you do not have to do anything but to worship Him the whole day through. Not thinking or doing your job? Does that ever happen? At least one dedicated day a week?
Not worrying what is the right one is not the problem is acknowledging if there should be ever one for God on a weekly basis.
What about those who are part of the emergency room medical staff or a fire department? Is that the response you'd want to hear if your life was in danger on a sabbath day?
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 4:24:48 PM
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Chief
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Sabbath was made for man not man for sabbath. I said in post 31 that the Lord's day is also a day of mercy. Works of mercy are not evil even on the day of the sabbath the Lord was clear about that.
< Message edited by Chief -- 7/12/2005 4:40:51 PM >
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 4:51:18 PM
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gambit
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But that would require people to work and be on staff every sabbath. You can't have it both ways. Who's to say what is a work of mercy and what isn't.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 5:12:14 PM
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bobservations
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Chief, you had much to say in your post and I thik it best to answer back in color right in your post. boB
I have not gone far enough that you should have a warrant to shoot me down. I was hoping that you would hear me out a little further and be patient. Sorry I jumped the gun I was establishing the principles of the Moral law but since I see that there is a need to jump queue the whole process I might as well accommodate.
I am tempted to pour everything on in one post so let us start with your statement, "It is tradition of men". I agree. It was. But that is not all, I also believe that it was a tradition of inspired men. It was a tradition by the apostles. But are traditions established of men altogether wrong? If they were tradition of men who did not have the inspired authority of God, it must not be followed. Tradition is not always wrong. It is when people try to make it come from scripture. The Apostles did not seal a day for worship. They may have gathered on that day, but never made it manditory.
2Th 2:15 therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions, which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
I wish there is a one-stop verse to silent all SDA advocates but there is none. Just like the rest of the commandments in the epistles, we see the moral law implied. Many times they do not enumerate it right, leave out a commandment or just plain apply it, similar to the 4th commandment. Since they are written in our hearts the law has no formal form but now is a living law. In Heb 10:25 we see the law implied. The 4th commandment is not moral it is ritual.
Heb 10:25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is... Good point. If a day was important he would have specified it. And also would have told us how often if that had been important.
Sabbath in old Israel is not only a day of rest but also a day of assembly, a day of exhortation, a day of prayer. I really don't think you will find any scripture that require assembly, exhortation or prayer. Moses told them to stay in their place (tents). Sometime later after they came to the promised land they were allowed out of their tents.
And the following statement further reinforces this that the neglect of it is sin (v26). Similarly if we are in require confessing our sins even as believers it goes to show that laws are still in place that require obedience. Verse 26 is not refering to not meeting together as the sin. It is refering to the knowledge of truth. Knowing truth and not living it.
I am not here to contend against the statement "everyday is the Sabbath". I will just let it lie for now by saying that I agree in a sense that we are now rested from the labor or the law, burden of sin and in faith with God so we rejoice and worship God daily. Individually we can apply that. But that does not altogether rub away the 4th commandment that we as the true children of God should individually and corporately apply. The principle of rest should always apply to our lives. Recreate (recreation) is good for the sole. Work should cease for a time and we should relax, gather together, worship, Praise and exhort. Either the 10 Commandments along with the rest of the 613 laws were not nailed to the Cross and we are still under its curse or we are living with Jesus and the New Covenant. All the Old Covanent was nailed to the Cross. Take your choice. Under the New there is no Sabbath.
The 4th commandment requires six days of labor and one day of rest. Isn't there an aching in the Christian heart to work hard and be all we can be for God and isn't there also a wanting to rest at least one day of the week? Isn’t that the Holy Ghost in us instructing and using our consciences to act as if it they are still imperative? Well, satan would like very much to some how put us back under a law. Keeping a Sabbath day is and has ben a form of legalism. Some Sunday keepers would very much like to see the stores closed on Sunday. They would very much like to restrict others activities. Mandating a day is a form of unwarranted control.
It requires one day to be Holy. In our hearts we all want this to be daily and not labor. But that is forthcoming when we will finally be at rest from sin and the labors of this world. While were are here we are enjoined to work that even Paul would say that it is not virtue to not labor with one’s hand. He commended himself as a workingman and he condemned those who did not by condemning them to hunger – he who does not work does not eat. If labor is not abrogated, so must be the setting aside of a day for the Lord. That is an assumption. The thought is good and I do set aside a day to collectively worship. I am glad that on Sundays most work ceases and we can all have time to worship and fellowship. In fact, praise the Lord for time off. We need it to renew our mental and physical being. Woe unto those that don't. My point is don't make it a sin for not "keeping" Sunday.
God instituted the 4th commandment as a Moral Law because worked, God rested and he hallowed it – “For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it”. Did the commandment originate from Mt. Sinai? No. It originated from the day the world was created. It originated from the sense of Divine labor and Divine rest. God rested not man but God that if we were made from the image of God, the Decalogue would just be a reflection of the same image that are in us. So, if God had worked and had rested, so should we as God’s image bearers. The Decalogue may just have been on a stone but it is a testament of who we were and who we should be the holy image bearers of God. We even see in Exodus 16 prior to the ratification of God’s covenant at Mt. Sinai, Moses requiring his people to rest for one. He even required that manna be gather enough for each day but on the 6th day gather for 2 days because the next day there shall be not gathering. God instituded the 4th Commandment at Sinai, but it wasn't a moral law it was very much ritual. It was sanwiched in with the moral laws. There is no evidence that anyone after Eden kept Sabbath until Moses at the Red Sea. And then it was only given to the Jews.
Now to get back on your real disagreements to the institution of the Lord’s day, I submit that the Gospels did not put the words “first day of the week” by accident in regards to the Lord’s resurrection. First, it underscores that fact that He was to rise on the 3rd day and secondly, it underscores remembrance on the part of believers. On the same night Jesus appeared in the midst of the apostles 8 (Jewish) days after, which is an equivalent of a week, the same exact day, they were gathered ones again and were in the presence of Jesus. A new pattern had emerged in the infant church. If this is man-only tradition it seems that the Lord is placing His seal of approval on it because it is also here recorded that we see Jesus being with them, gathered. Sabbath was very important to God for the Jews He reminded them all through the Old Testament when they didn't keep it. Never in the New Testament does God remind us to observe a day. If it is so important to observe a day I would think we would have some sort of instruction. There are many examples of the apostles going to he temple on Sabbath. Would that make it a tradition for us? Should we go to a Jewish temple on Sabbath because Paul did? Would you say that that is as much a pattern as Christ's appearing on two Sundays?
John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. That was a Saturday night meeting and Paul got up the next day(Sunday) and traveled to the next city.
John 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
The disciples first began the commemorative day of the Lord’s resurrection traditionally on the same day - His resurrection day. Could be, but it was never made official.
On the same day they are assembled, the principles of the weekly Sabbath were applied such as the corporate performance of ordinances and hearing of God’s word;
Acts 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
The setting aside of aid to the needy;
1 Corinthians 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
The examples of the NT suggest that believers were applying the good principles of the Sabbath on the first day of the week corporately instead of doing it on the last day of the week. The NT believers did not remove themselves from the principle that Sabbath is a day of mercy, necessity, gathering, worship, prayer and ordinances. We may not have to follow the external Jewish regulations but we are not to undermine the fact that there must still be on a weekly basis a day dedicated for the Lord. Show me where those "good principles of the Sabbath" are found in the law. Good point for Christians and we should practice such, but no rule was ever instituted.
It should be no mystery why John would call a day “the Lord’s day”. It is the day of Christ’s triumph over the grave and similar to the principles of Sabbath, it is the day of the Lord’s resting from His work. All days could be considered the Lord's days. Still no proof that we are to consider Sunday to be a Holy day set aside by God as a law.
.
When Christ rose from the dead he had secured for us a salvation that can never be removed. His work was done. His resurrection signified God’s satisfaction in everything that He did. Similar to the Lord’s satisfaction in everything that He created.
Heb 4:4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:10 ….he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Sabbath is all about God finishing his work and the Lord’s Day is all about Christ doing the same. Similar principles apply to both the individual and the church. The Sabbath and the Lord’s Day are both commemorative of the days God and the Lord rested from their labor. A day of rest, worship, good works and a day separate from the rest. Jesus finished His work on Friday. I don't see how you can draw that parallel.
This has been a long post and I have taken the time to answer your thoughts. You didn't do the same for all my previous thoughts. It is my hope you will consider all of my earnest response. Peace, boB
< Message edited by bobservations -- 7/12/2005 5:22:18 PM >
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 5:22:58 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Gambit,
Apparently, believers should take it both ways.
In a sense, yes it would be work. They would be making money, yes. They would be carrying burdens, yes. But according to Jesus it is a work that is necessary and He does it Himself by healing on a sabbath. Granted that he was not paid for His services but what it produced was a work of mercy.
Preachers work on the Lord's day and the bible even suggest that they get remunerated for their work.
The disciples plucked ears of corn on a sabbath but this became an issue with the Pharisees. Apparently for them it was no different form picking up sticks on a sabbath. But the the Lord contended that it was permitted on the sabbath.
Remember, the New Covenant has not come yet at this time and the Lord is already applying principles we would normally say that does apply only in the New Covenant Era.
Apparently Jesus never contended against resting. He contended for doing the Lord's work in it as well. Mercy is the Lord's work.
_____________________________
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 6:50:54 PM
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Chief
Posts: 104
Joined: 4/12/2005
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Bob,
quote:
Sorry I jumped the gun NP. Thanks for responding. I am glad at least my posts are being considered. Here some points that I currently have the resource to respond to.
quote:
Tradition is not always wrong. It is when people try to make it come from scripture. The Apostles did not seal a day for worship. They may have gathered on that day, but never made it manditory. Granted that there is no cut and dried commandment directing us to hallow a day, it is apparent that Jesus favored it upon His resurrection, the apostles followed similar godly principles of the Sabbath on a certain specific day and ordered the affairs of the church that way.
quote:
The 4th commandment is not moral it is ritual. It is moral. It takes residence and grouped in the set of moral laws written in stone. The rituals around the observance of the commandment is abrogated, not the commandment itself.
quote:
Good point. If a day was important he would have specified it. And also would have told us how often if that had been important. Apparently it was already an obvious practice in those days.
quote:
I really don't think you will find any scripture that require assembly, exhortation or prayer. Moses told them to stay in their place (tents). Sometime later after they came to the promised land they were allowed out of their tents.
Assembly:
Leviticus 23:3 There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, a day of sacred assembly…
Exhortation:
Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?
Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
Prayer:
Isaiah 56:6-7 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
quote:
Verse 26 is not refering to not meeting together as the sin. It is refering to the knowledge of truth. Knowing truth and not living it. That is a good way to put it. But in the days of Moses one of the apparent stiffed-neck actions Israel did was to neglect the Sabbath. And v 28 we were reminded that we are not to follow their ways.
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The principle of rest should always apply to our lives. Recreate (recreation) is good for the sole. Work should cease for a time and we should relax, gather together, worship, Praise and exhort. Either the 10 Commandments along with the rest of the 613 laws were not nailed to the Cross and we are still under its curse or we are living with Jesus and the New Covenant. All the Old Covanent was nailed to the Cross. Take your choice. Under the New there is no Sabbath. Maybe we should look at the verse that say that the law was nailed to the cross so we can probably discuss it. Are you referring to a particular verse?
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From Chief: John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. From Bob: That was a Saturday night meeting and Paul got up the next day(Sunday) and traveled to the next city. Paul was never mentioned in the Gospel of John.
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Could be, but it was never made official. It sounded like by practice it did.
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Show me where those "good principles of the Sabbath" are found in the law. Good point for Christians and we should practice such, but no rule was ever instituted. Worship, preaching, assembling? Aren’t those good principles? Works of mercy as stated by Christ, is that a good principle?
I have considered most of the responses and will need to be very careful on the rest. I will get back to you as soon as it is providentially allowed.
Thanks.
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This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 7:19:00 PM
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Chief
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gambit
You have to look at what the Sabbath was created for.
Rest.
In Hebrews 4:7 it says "Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it TODAY...
It's not referring to a certain day anymore, but today and everyday.
The believer ceases his efforts to gain salvation by his own works and rests in the finished work of Christ on the cross (NIV text note).
Jesus said in Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST".
Notice Jesus didn't say to those who are weary and burdened to wait until the 7th day to rest, but to rest in him.
Thanks, Gambit.
But I do not agree with the Hebrew application. The verse actually reads "Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts." A quotation of a verse from David's Psalm 95. V8 says: "Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness"
It is more like a deadline date for a response than anything else. The verse is self explanatory.
And BTW, the discussion does not revolve in acquiring salvation.
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This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.- Saul of Tarsus
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 8:27:34 PM
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saintgrace
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quote:
ORIGINAL: saintgrace
Worship God every day... 24/7... then there will be no question as to what day is "right".
My point is ... it seems quite ridiculous to me for people to niggle and gripe with one another about whether Saturday is "right" or whether Sunday is "right", when there is no wrong day for worship.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 9:16:50 PM
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bobservations
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True, True, Saint Grace. Just that some would call it sin to not worship on the particular day they are impressed to keep. Then they try to impress others to do the same. Some state that those who don't honor the day will be lost. This is not scriptural.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 10:15:39 PM
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destiny24
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I agree Bob. I have a SDA friend who told me that after hearing the truth of how we are still supposed to keep the Sabbath, those who still worship on Sunday will receive the mark of the beast. Making the Sabbath or any day essential for salvation is not scriptual at all. Lately. I've been constantly studying the Sabbath because listening to my friend I was thinking maybe I was wrong and maybe we were still supposed to keep the Sabbath. But it seems to me that even in the OT there was mention of the Sabbath ending. I don't think I misunderstood the chapter.
Hosea 2:11 states "I will cause all her mirth to cease, her feasts days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
what understanding have yawl come to concerning this verse?
< Message edited by destiny24 -- 7/12/2005 10:24:14 PM >
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 10:15:54 PM
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bobservations
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Chief, thanks for setting me straight on at least two points. I had looked over Lev.23: 3 completely. I knew that after the law of Moses was given that they did meet, but didn't realize it was a requirement. There was a requirement that they remain in their tents on the Sabbath. Wonder why that changed? As far as Exhortation is concerned it wasn't one of the 613. Jesus did it, but you haven't given me scripture that it was required. Prayer was not one of the 613 either.
From Chief: John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. From Bob: That was a Saturday night meeting and Paul got up the next day(Sunday) and traveled to the next city.Paul was never mentioned in the Gospel of John.
Sorry I had my mind on Acts 20:7. I over looked the scripture you gave. In Jn 20:19 they were assembled for fear of the Jews. I don't believe they were commemorating his resurrection. At least it doesn't state that they were.
Chief said:Granted that there is no cut and dried commandment directing us to hallow a day, it is apparent that Jesus favored it upon His resurrection, the apostles followed similar godly principles of the Sabbath on a certain specific day and ordered the affairs of the church that way.
It isn't apparent at all Chief. Jesus would have at least given us a hint. As to the Apostles following simular Godly principles... 1st Cor. 16:1-3 says that on the first day of every week set aside money in keeping with income and save it up so when Paul comes to collect it no (last minute) collections would have to be made. It says nothing about being in assembly and I would assume that they counted the money they made during the work week and set it aside in their homes until Paul came. Do you have other examples?
Chief said: Maybe we should look at the verse that say that the law was nailed to the cross so we can probably discuss it. Are you referring to a particular verse?
Yes, Col. 2:15
< Message edited by bobservations -- 7/12/2005 10:17:54 PM >
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 10:31:56 PM
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bobservations
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Destiny24 said: quote:
I agree Bob. I have a SDA friend who had told me that after hearing the truth of how we are still supposed to keep the Sabbath and we still worship on Sunday we will receive the mark of the beast. Making the Sabbath or any day essential for salvation not scriptual at all. It also seems to me that even in the OT there was mention of the Sabbath ending or I may be mistaken.
Hosea 2:11 states "I will cause all her mirth to cease, her feasts days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
what understanding have yawl come to concerning this verse?
A few years ago I was one of them. I had an argument for everything that was thrown at me. My mind was sealed and I couldn't see the forest for the trees until one day.......Now I understand His Grace and recieve Him fully.
Jesus caused it all to go away as Hosea stated. This I truly believe is talking about the New Covenant. What a blessing we have living on this side of the Cross. Would that all mankind recieve Him. We have a great work to do in inviting the World to meet our Savior.
Good to have you posting. Tell us more about your self. Peace, boB
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 10:50:10 PM
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EZ_03
Posts: 77
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quote:
ORIGINAL: destiny24
Hosea 2:11 states "I will cause all her mirth to cease, her feasts days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts.
what understanding have yawl come to concerning this verse?
darn. i told myself i wasn't going to get sucked in again, but this one's too good.
what this passage says is that what God declares a punishment (namely getting rid of the feast days/aka God's Appointed Times or "set times" and the Sabbath), the church has decided is a good thing, and through the centuries abandoned a portion of God's gifts along the way in the name of "liberty."
it is interesting to note than in Daniel 7, one of the foretold kings would "change the set times and the Laws"...so we're all clear on this one: this king was/is/will be a bad guy. again, what God calls a bad thing, the church calls "freedom."
and finally, another one you'll never get anyone to discuss around here is why we ALL will celebrate the feast of Tabernacles/Sukkot year after year after year after year in the future (Zechariah 14)...well "all" except for the christians that stand up and loudly protest..."BUT THIS IS A MERE SHADOW!!! I REFUSE TO ENGAGE IN SUCH LEGALISM!!! I WON'T LET ANYONE JUDGE ME FOR NOT DOING THIS!!! HAS ANYONE SEEN PAUL, I THINK HE CAN STRAIGHTEN THIS WHOLE THING OUT!!! PAUL???" 
meanwhile God's children will joyously celebrate them with Him for as long as He wants us to...
wanna start practicing?  
outta here you guys, have fun. 
p.s. bob, you may want to look up mirth in a dictionary...unless you truly feel that punishing israel (taking away the Feasts, the wool, the grain, ruining vines and trees, etc.) is what the New Covenant is all about...sheesh...
< Message edited by EZ_03 -- 7/12/2005 10:52:52 PM >
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Open my eyes that I may behold wonderful things from Your Torah. (Psalms 119:18)
Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law. (Romans 3:31)
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 10:57:29 PM
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destiny24
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Well, I am still pretty new to the Body of Christ. I was baptised as a teenager but not for the right reasons. And I hardly knew anything about God's word until I was re-baptised last year for the right reasons. I am learning a lot though. I study alot on my own as well because I don't want to be like those that simply go along with everything they hear from their pastors, family, or friends.
I have been doing a study on Sabbath because it seems to me that the Sabbath is one of the biggest divisions among Christians today. I believe we have rest in Christ but was starting to question myself about the Sabbath thinking that maybe I was wrong. That's what lead me to this forum, just wanted to see other's views regarding the Sabbath.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 11:13:18 PM
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bobservations
Posts: 921
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Destiny, When you say you are questioning whether you are wrong do you mean wrong about keeping Sabbath or wrong for not keeping it?
I was SDA for over 40 years. They have some unexplainable teachings derived mostly from their prophet, Mrs. White. I would like to direct you to a very good web site: truthorfables.com There you have an opportunity to weigh most of the doctrines of SDA's. Good luck. Keep an open mind in your search.
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RE: Sabbath - One Stop Thread - 7/12/2005 11:26:18 PM
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