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[Poll]
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Jesus picture in the sanctuary
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| Get rid of the Jesus picture, even if people are offended. |
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| Move the Jesus picture to another area of the church. |
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| Wait until the older people pass away to move the picture. |
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| Keep the picture--it's not that big of a deal. |
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Total Votes : 42
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(last vote on : 9/5/2008 12:17:27 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )
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Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 8:29:08 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4989
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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My husband took his first church at the end of February as senior pastor, and as of yet, we really haven't made any changes. Most of the changes we are planning on making we think aren't going to be very controversial, but one of them we want to make we think has the potential to be unpopular.
There's a picture of Jesus hanging on the wall of the sanctuary, by the piano up front. It even lights up. It's a very popular rendition of Jesus, although a very innacurate one. I doubt it really looks much like Jesus at all. Blue eyes, roman nose, white skin, etc. LINK
Although I am not necessarily opposed to pictures of Jesus, I do think that having one up in front of you in church while you were worshiping could be a violation of the second commandment. My husband agrees with me on this.
However, there are some old people in this church that are very attached to this picture. They complain if we forget to plug it in. If we were to move it, we would probably be accused of kicking Jesus out of church.
What would you do if you were in this situation?
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 9:21:40 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6243
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From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Eh, I would not have it in the sanctuary.. but that's just me.
I am not too found of any pictures like that.
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 9:33:39 AM
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rcjames
Posts: 5677
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From: Oklahoma
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My personal feelings about the pictures are not very positive, but if you are a new Pastor and start making changes you had better be ready for the fall out that will (not maybe, but will) follow.
I advise a lot of new Pastors and I tell them to be slow in their changing things, especially just to be changing things. Music is one area that must be dealt with very carefully (and slowly).
Understand that you may think the picture is silly (or maybe even an idol) or distracting or whatever, but that photo has been a fixture and part of the worship services of the older folks for years and sudden changes will seem near sacrilege to them even if they are not.
Caution is the better part of valor.
Also it is not necessary for a Pastor to change things to prove he is the Pastor; Preach and teach with the power of the Holy Spirit for a while and then change whatever you want to change.
Thanks
RC
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Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 9:50:27 AM
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Szaftoo
Posts: 813
Joined: 4/13/2005
From: So. Calif.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rcjames
My personal feelings about the pictures are not very positive, but if you are a new Pastor and start making changes you had better be ready for the fall out that will (not maybe, but will) follow.
I advise a lot of new Pastors and I tell them to be slow in their changing things, especially just to be changing things. Music is one area that must be dealt with very carefully (and slowly).
Understand that you may think the picture is silly (or maybe even an idol) or distracting or whatever, but that photo has been a fixture and part of the worship services of the older folks for years and sudden changes will seem near sacrilege to them even if they are not.
Caution is the better part of valor.
Also it is not necessary for a Pastor to change things to prove he is the Pastor; Preach and teach with the power of the Holy Spirit for a while and then change whatever you want to change.
Thanks
RC
Excellent reply.
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:08:58 AM
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URForgiven
Posts: 1129
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I have seen the same picture hanging in classrooms that are made up of only minorities. I have even seen it, in videos, hanging on the wall behind people in China. And I cannot help but wonder what this image does to a persons view of Christ and of themselves.
I voted to get rid of the Jesus picture. Perhaps you could ask the congregation how they feel about that, explaining why you feel it does need to come down. Whether sooner or later, it does need to come down IMHO.
Peace
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"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:10:47 AM
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sisrev
Posts: 886
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From: The South, ya'll
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Start by making smaller changes first--something non-controversal, like repainting a SS class, or re-doing the foyer.
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:29:13 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4989
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
I advise a lot of new Pastors and I tell them to be slow in their changing things, especially just to be changing things. Music is one area that must be dealt with very carefully (and slowly).
That's the advice my husband received in Bible College, too. We've heeded it so far. :) We're almost to that six-month mark now that his professors said to wait for until you start making changes...and we've already lost some of the younger people who have been disappointed that we haven't changed anything. No matter what we do people are going to be upset. We're moving too fast for some and too slow for others. So ultimately we want to be God pleasers and not people pleasers, but we still want to show respect for the elderly people in our church and not unnecessarily offend them.
quote:
Start by making smaller changes first--something non-controversal, like repainting a SS class, or re-doing the foyer.
I think we're going to get an artist in our church to do a mural in the foyer. I was thinking maybe we could put the Jesus picture in the foyer, too, eventually, so they could see it as they come in. I know they really like it, so I'd like them to be able to still have it, just not up front where it can be made into an idol.
quote:
Perhaps you could ask the congregation how they feel about that, explaining why you feel it does need to come down.
My husband was thinking about doing a series on the Ten Commandments, and maybe raising the issue in a sermon. I'm not sure if that would be the best way to go about it, or to talk to the board. None of the old people that I know would be upset by it are on the board, though.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:41:14 AM
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sisrev
Posts: 886
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From: The South, ya'll
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I'd be careful about likening the picture to an idol--I'm sure the old folks who like the picture don't think of it like that. I'd stick more with the idea of redecorating/updating idea--moving or removing the picture as part of an updating of the overall look of the church, than equating the picture with the worship of idols or the use of icons.
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My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:42:44 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4989
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
Just teasing, we have plenty of murals on the walls and folks really love them, but in all honesty the next Pastor my feel they are an idol, and paint over them.
LOL!  There's always that possibility. Ours is going to be scenic one, though. A sunset, with sillhouettes of a cross or maybe three crosses. She hasn't shown me exactly what she wants to do yet, but she's really good. Crosses don't bother me, not even in the sanctuary. We have one of those in our santuary, too. I'd like to put curtains on the back wall arranged to highlight the cross, but if I did that the curtains would hang over the Jesus picture anyway. Hmmm, maybe that would be a good solution. 
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:47:41 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4989
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sisrev
I'd be careful about likening the picture to an idol--I'm sure the old folks who like the picture don't think of it like that. I'd stick more with the idea of redecorating/updating idea--moving or removing the picture as part of an updating of the overall look of the church, than equating the picture with the worship of idols or the use of icons.
I know they don't consider it to be an idol. I guess I'm thinking that if my pastor did something I disagreed with in the name of redecorating the sanctuary, I'd be really upset. I'd think he cared more about how the church looked than he cared about the Lord. Let's kick Jesus out of church because He doesn't match with the decor. But if the pastor explained that it was a conviction of his, even if I didn't agree with him, I'd at least understand that he was trying to do what he feels is right and I'd respect that a lot more. That's just the way I'd see it, though.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 10:59:38 AM
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hispen
Posts: 64
Joined: 8/17/2006
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quote:
My husband was thinking about doing a series on the Ten Commandments, and maybe raising the issue in a sermon. I'm not sure if that would be the best way to go about it, or to talk to the board. None of the old people that I know would be upset by it are on the board, though.
That is exactly what I was thinking as I began reading this thread. Have a bible study on this commandment, or all of them over a series of weeks. God's word says my people perish for lack of knowledge. God sent you to feed your members, and I suspect that if you feed them with love, they will be happy to discover something new about God's word. Even for the older ones, it's all in your presentation. God sees your heart. You're not doing this for decorating reasons, your spirit wants to do this to lead your members to worship God in a more excellent way. I commend you for this. May God be with you - Be of Good Courage!
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His Pen
"The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue." II Samuel 23:2
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 1:00:49 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1902
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I didn't vote. I guess my thoughts are to be forthright about the picture. Try to find out where it came from, who donated it, is it a memorial, who is attached to it. I'd just talk about making some changes re: decorating and approaching it as honoring those in the church and who know the history as well as the emotion behind this picture.
I lived this situation in reverse. We were in a church (and had been there for some years) when a new pastor was brought in. One of the first things he did was hire a woman (an emotionally fragile woman) from the congregation to paint a mural on the front wall of the sanctuary. My husband was in leadership and this decision was not discussed by them.
The painting began and I went to prayer. First I could not believe the pastor (in his 70's) would do such a thing. Second I was concerned that he would put an emotionally fragile person in such a potentially volatile situation. So I continued to pray. The mural was a picture of Jesus in the clouds, surrounded by angels.
I, too, do not believe that we are to have images such as this in front of us as we worship and that it is a violation of the commandments. But I remained silent and prayed. It did end up to be a very uncomfortable situation for many and the emotionally fragile woman was deeply wounded and left the church.
I consider communication, the need for first person, caring conversation, to be one of the huge needs within the church. It could have prevented alot of pain and anguish in this situation. So I'm sharing this so that you perhaps can approach your situation with loving communication, true caring about the feelings of others.
That is not to say that people won't be offended or that you will all agree. But I see too many problems/situations that could have been avoided or minimized had there only been loving care and concern for the thoughts and feelings of others.
Those are my thoughts.  LL
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 2:12:42 PM
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colliefan
Posts: 2789
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: Raleigh, NC
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move it to the seniors' classroom?
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/23/2008 11:20:43 PM
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still4gvn
Posts: 1309
Joined: 12/28/2005
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This is probably a weird idea, but here it is: do some preaching on Jesus' heritage and the prophesies about Him in the OT and then describe what His family probably looked like and how they lived. Then get to how people have pictured Him through the ages - both theologically (God, or just a good person, etc.) and how different people have thought He looked. Could make the point that sometimes the way we visualize/paint Him expresses ideas we have of Him (like some pics make Him look kind of sissy, some virile, some happy, some pained). Then have people bring in different pics (prints) of Jesus and Biblical figures and put them along a wall in the fellowship room or whatever along with the one you don't like. That will get it moved out of the sanctuary and get them thinking. Probably too much work and a crazy idea.
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/24/2008 7:51:54 AM
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earthless
Posts: 6243
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: where pigeons are wearing sweaters....
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Replace it with a picture of a black Jesus!
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Probing Today's Religious Movements | Promoting Doctrinal Discernment & Critical Thinking | Providing Reasons for Christian Faith & Ethics
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/24/2008 8:12:24 AM
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bluestone
Posts: 2934
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I am not sure where it is the pastor's place to come into a church and remove objects the congregation have had in place for a long time, without consulting the lay leaders first.
That is the response you will get if you remove it on your own. Is it worth it?
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I need Christ. Not something that resembles Christ.
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/24/2008 8:15:36 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4989
Joined: 4/4/2005
From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
This is probably a weird idea, but here it is: do some preaching on Jesus' heritage and the prophesies about Him in the OT and then describe what His family probably looked like and how they lived. Then get to how people have pictured Him through the ages - both theologically (God, or just a good person, etc.) and how different people have thought He looked. Could make the point that sometimes the way we visualize/paint Him expresses ideas we have of Him (like some pics make Him look kind of sissy, some virile, some happy, some pained). Then have people bring in different pics (prints) of Jesus and Biblical figures and put them along a wall in the fellowship room or whatever along with the one you don't like. That will get it moved out of the sanctuary and get them thinking. Probably too much work and a crazy idea.
That's a really interesting idea. It's definitely worth some thought!
quote:
Replace it with a picture of a black Jesus!
quote:
Consecrated: Do you remember my post about a year ago about when my husband took down the pulpit? I never would have thought that people would become so irate over such a thing and talk to the Pastor like he was a dog in a business meeting. Just be prepared for that. Your husband should do what he is led by the spirit to do, but be ready for World War 3 from some of the older members of the congregation who hold tradition as sacred.
Hmmm, I think I vaguely remember that. I wish we could take down our pulpit, or at least downsize, but that one's just going to have to stay for awhile. The man who handmade that for us is a wonderful man who would be hurt, and I don't think there's a good enough reason to do that. It's not something we have any biblical objections to, it's just huge and takes up too much room. It's a beautiful pulpit, though.
So have the people in your church adjusted to your husband's decision yet? Did anyone leave over it?
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/24/2008 8:32:28 AM
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Consecrated2God
Posts: 4989
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From: Formerly Jesus Land
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quote:
But there is always someone upset about something. You can't please all the people all the time.
Yeah, we're starting to figure that out by now. Not that we didn't know that before, but we're starting to actually experience it ourselves.
I'm glad you didn't lose anyone over the decision. In our church, I don't think the people we would upset would leave, because some of them have been there literally eighty years. It's their church. They aren't going anywhere. They might kick us out if they are mad enough, but they wouldn't be the ones leaving.
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<--Plantation house in Louisiana
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/24/2008 5:16:49 PM
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pbaribeault
Posts: 1053
Joined: 4/29/2005
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Could I get a little background on the theology of not displaying religious art 'up front' in a place of worship? I'm not clear on how the presence of an "artist's rendering" (accurate or not) crosses the line from inspirational to idolatry. What's the general idea behind that school of thought?
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RE: Jesus picture in the sanctuary - 7/24/2008 5:20:03 PM
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DreadPirateRandy
Posts: 7728
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quote:
ORIGINAL: earthless
Replace it with a picture of a black Jesus!
Keepin' it real, folks. Keepin' it real.
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The lunatic, the lover, and the poet, are of imagination all compact.
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