|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/23/2008 8:09:49 PM
|
|
|
heavenly4you
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/12/2008
Status: offline
|
Quote from Buckfin:
heavenly
I came back to add don't forget the lesson doesn't stop just because the meeting is over either. We never know how God is going to bring back up the seed that is planted when we teach His Word...and the lesson they need may be given to them in their alone time with God when nobody else is there to distract them. We don't always see immed. results but we are to keep sowing the seed.
Heavenly:
Despite how this group has behaved towards me and their apparent and obivious displays of what they are not, I do continue to sow the word and I leave the outcome, the consequences, and the seed that I have planted in God's hands. He will take care of it and I know that he will do with each person what needs to be done. Thank you for such postive feedback and direction, I've learned a lot from your posts and style of replying. God bless you
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/23/2008 10:02:53 PM
|
|
|
blessedinnyc
Posts: 1967
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: InfoCentral
I was reluctant to respond thinking that since you haven’t responded lately and your low post count that you just blew through. I see now that you have returned so let me continue.
I am appalled at the poor secular advice given here on was is a Christian Forum. I can’t believe that Christians would boldly align themselves with those who are rebellious and trouble makers. Even going so far as to say that leadership should step aside and give into the demands of the group. The new age chaos belief where no one is in charge we are all in charge and leadership is to questioned, challenged and resisted. Just how ridiculous is that secular philosophy.
Fortunately, although God's instructions about authority still hold true today, he has changed the level of authority he vests in people and his method for vesting that authority. Good servant-leaders work on building consensus, as Peter did in Acts 15. Rather than calling himself the appointed head, he instead opened his reasoning to the others. He explained the miracles he had witnessed among the gentiles, and managed to get the council to solidify behind writing a letter with instructions for Gentiles being admitted into the church without also becoming Jews.
I think that the model that Peter used (often called the "Socratic" model today) is an excellent thing to do in this situation. The next time people ask for lunch, I would explain that food for everyone would probably cost a few dollars a person, and that we can do this if everyone helps chip in. I'm willing to pay for at least my share of the food, but I can't pay for everything on my own. We can either do lunch or we don't have to, but we all need to agree on something.
One third alternative would be to have lunch first- and then do the Bible study. That way, people who don't want to pay can still come to the studies. And finally, someone else might have a fourth option that everyone can agree to.
quote:
The Bible is very clear on where God stands in regards to leadership and our attitude towards those in charge. God says he put them there and we are to submit to them and respect them. King David could have saved himself a lot of heartache and trouble by taking out the one in charge but he knew this principle and said who am I to destroy what God had put in place.
I think it's often difficult to differentiate between rebellion and stubbornness. I am not sure if the followers are trying to maliciously hurt this person- it seems like the main problem is that they're having trouble coming around a consensus.
Remember, a good leader doesn't have to get his particular way unless he/she happens to know it's clearly and unambiguously also God's way.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/25/2008 6:06:05 PM
|
|
|
buckifn
Posts: 1788
Joined: 5/23/2006
Status: offline
|
glad something I said helped you heavenly. I've got to tell you I know a lot about feeling discouraged or frustrated or wondering if we are having any positive results for our efforts when it comes to leading small groups, but I also know God does not want leaders who give up and walk away as soon as things are rough either.
Think about the time Jesus took the disciples on the boat when Peter walked on the water. Couldn't Jesus have made the same point on dry land using a different method? Or could He not have just took Peter by himself? No, He chose a group to take on a boat IN a storm.
He knew there would be storms in our lives too. He was trying to help us know He meets us in the storm. He is right there. Almost any type of ministry we do will involve problems because we all have the same human nature that is at war with the Spirit. But greater is HE that is in us than he that is in the world. BE BLESSED AND BE STRONG.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/26/2008 1:26:51 PM
|
|
|
InfoCentral
Posts: 158
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
|
Isn't it funny how many people will step up to the plate and try to convince you that your not in charge of anything here on a Christian forum? Your doing an incredible job and the Lord will surely bless you for it. Being in charge of a region for a large international organization I know what your talking about. The work clubs were always the hardest and most obs tenet groups to work with of the bunch and this was with a secular organization. Here are my suggestions.
Disband and Restart Later
Something God Himself did over and over again to the rebellious and unruly. If they are too unruly and you can't seem to get productive then you really are not bearing fruit. Others who may seek your group needing help and guidance may decide not to return for this very reason. These are people who are really interested in a Bible Study but feel shut down by stronger more rebellious and louder members who's main goal it is to see that your not in charge. You would do everyone a favor if when you got to this point you made the hard decision to shut down for the good of the group. Then in a month or two advertise again as a new group starting up and this time have a Bible Study plan set out for at least a quarter. Hand this out at the first meeting and all the meetings that follow as needed along with the Rules of Conduct. You may be surprised by an increase in group size and growing as word gets around that the trouble makers are gone and Bible Study is actually being accomplished.
Start Another Group
God also would split groups so that one would flourish and the other would go about their affairs. If all they seem to want to do talk and fellowship with other Christians than that really doesn't sound like a bad thing to me. That is unless it is at a group Bible Study and it isn't getting done because of it. So for those who want fellowship and not study than perhaps a group for that as well. Expansionism isn't a bad thing either. One day per week Bible Study and one day per week fellowship meeting. Make it clear at the start of the new Fellowship Group the Rules of Conduct i.e. not everyone can talk at the same time. Perhaps you can have disscussion topic some weeks and an open forum at the beginning or end of each month or all the time. Who knows...its a fellowship. At the same time of the creation of this group this is your opportunity to regain control of the Bible Study group. Again develop a quarterly plan and the Rules of Conduct and pass those out as well. The Lord loves organization. Make out fliers that include both the starting of the new group as well as the starting of a new Bible Study group.
Confront
The Bible is very clear on this point as we are to confront our brothers. This time immediately confront those who are disruptive and break the Rules of Conduct. After the conclusion of the meeting ask those who are showing little interest in the unity of the group that you want to talk to them. Tell them that perhaps this group is not meeting their needs and they need to move on and not come back. If they want to remain then they need to follow the Rules of Conduct like everyone else. If they persist in not leaving and being disruptive tell them again that if they return then you will have no alternative but to report this to the company and have the company remove then and this won't look good on their personnel file. Usually this will scare them off. Also, you need to find another person as an assistant because everyone gets sick and you need, as a leader, someone you can fall back on. This person should always be there too when you confront someone. Never do it alone. God will bless you just hang in there...Christ First
< Message edited by InfoCentral -- 8/26/2008 1:37:55 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/29/2008 10:13:22 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
OK, I came back and read this and I have seen many people saying that the Bible is clear on authority and that the OP has such authority. Some are also "surprised" that I (and possibly others) would not agree that there is any authority here sice scripture is so "clear" about it.
Well, show me. Give me chapter and verse(s), in context, that shows the OP has biblical authority over a group of coworkers in a Bible study and prayer group. I want specific verses on this teaching and extensive explaination on how it applies to this situation. I want to know who has authority, when they have it, where it comes from, and how far it goes.
I'll head off all of us running down needless rabbit trails - I'm not saying there is no such thing as biblical authority. I'm saying it does not apply here, that the OP has no authority over these people. Some of you say he does. So, let's stop making vague refernces to scripture and get to specifics. I'm going on a trip over the weekend, so there should be plenty of time to find what I'm asking for if it is there (hint: it's not, but you can try).
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/29/2008 10:26:53 PM
|
|
|
sisrev
Posts: 886
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
Status: offline
|
Amen, Bro_Shane!
_____________________________
My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/31/2008 9:53:47 AM
|
|
|
Sadey
Posts: 531
Joined: 7/25/2007
Status: offline
|
I doubt if the company will put anything in anyone's personnel file concerning their actions at a Bible Study. Wouldn't the lawyers love that.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 8/31/2008 10:21:51 PM
|
|
|
heavenly4you
Posts: 12
Joined: 8/12/2008
Status: offline
|
To everyone that gave me positive comments, or positive direction to try for the group,thank you. The Lord is moving out the trouble makers from the group and I am trusting in God for reorganization of the group with members that want to get along and do things in unity.
And for you Bro Shane, it looks like you are looking for a fight and an argument rather than anything else, I could tell that by your abrupt tone in your previous post. I posted the topic to get encouragement and insight on what direction I should take for the group not to fight with you. Because you need SO Much validation and so much scriptural reference on authority, I suggest you get with your local pastor who should be glad to spend the time with you to help you understand authority. Your local pastor should be able to explain to you how God appoints leaders and how the leader's authority is delegated wheter it be in Church, Bible study etc...Or better yet, I suggest you pray and ask God to teach you the meaning of his authority, and ask God to back this up for you until you understand. My thought process is this, no matter how much scripture you are given, you will still want to fight and argue about the topic because it does not line up with your way of thinking or because it does not line up with your own personal experiences and or interpretation of the situation, and that is not my purpose for posting here, I will not engage in a heated debate or fight with you or anyone else about it, nor will I respond to it. I am already dealing with a strife filled group, the last thing I need is strife on a "christian" forum.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/1/2008 11:54:15 AM
|
|
|
pbaribeault
Posts: 1050
Joined: 4/29/2005
Status: online
|
I agree with Bro Shane - in content, if not in 'tone'. If you feel you have authority over a voluntary gathering of Christian adults, you might want to make sure you have a firm Scriptural backing for that. Because I read nothing like that in the Bible. Perhaps, once you get it figured out, if you have got a Scriptural foundation, then a Bible study that shows your group why God has appointed you in authority over them... that might help with their 'rebellion'.
If you choose that method for dealing with your problem, the study should help you (as you prepare it) and them (as a group) to come to a common understanding, or at least lend them clarity on your position, whether they agree or not. If you go to all that trouble and study, once you are done, perhaps you could post the results of your in-depth Scriptural analysis here so that those of us who hold different understandings might better understand where you are coming from with all your talk about authority, submission and rebellion. (In which case, some of us might post too, that you might better understand those who don't think along the same lines.)
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/1/2008 3:55:21 PM
|
|
|
ironsharpensiron
Posts: 147
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
quote:
To everyone that gave me positive comments, or positive direction to try for the group,thank you. The Lord is moving out the trouble makers from the group and I am trusting in God for reorganization of the group with members that want to get along and do things in unity.
This is awesome. God knows your heart, and He will unify the group in ways that you never thought possible. For those of you who are serious about relationship with Him, He will draw you close, and leave behind those who only want to cause division and disunity.
Good for you. Keep us updated on how the group grows~both physically as well as spiritually.
Be blessed, Heavenly4you, and know that the Lord walks with you.
matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/2/2008 12:08:38 AM
|
|
|
InfoCentral
Posts: 158
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
|
Praise the Lord!
I agree with you heavenly and that is why I won't be drawn into a conflict just because someone wants to fight. Your doing a great job and don't get discouraged. Small group leadership started very early in the Bible as an institution.
quote:
VERSE: Exo 18:21
But in addition, you should choose some capable men and appoint them as leaders of the people: leaders of thousands, hundreds, fifties, and tens. They must be God-fearing men who can be trusted and who cannot be bribed.
Leaders of tens would be the bases of small group leadership. People who come from churches that don't have small groups but have the big church gathering can't quite put their arm around it. Right now I'm finishing up on a great book about small group building called Church is a Team Sport. This church started out as a small group and grew to 8,000 in 8 years and stills has a growth rate of 1,000 new members/year. At the core of their structure is small groups; currently at approx. 700. You can still attend church on Sunday but they will try and direct you into a small group there. Get it, it will inspire you.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/2/2008 4:22:36 PM
|
|
|
sisrev
Posts: 886
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: The South, ya'll
Status: offline
|
I don't think the issue is the success/usefulness of the small group model of doing church. I think the issue is spiritual authority, and who can rightfully exercise that authority.
_____________________________
My new blog, A Virtuous Woman
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/2/2008 7:00:29 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: heavenly4you
And for you Bro Shane, it looks like you are looking for a fight and an argument rather than anything else, I could tell that by your abrupt tone in your previous post.
No, I am looking for scripture. My tone did not become abrupt until I was told by multiple people that I was wrong. Then I abruptly asked for scriptural proof. Now notice that, here to fore, there has been none.
quote:
Because you need SO Much validation and so much scriptural reference on authority, I suggest you get with your local pastor who should be glad to spend the time with you to help you understand authority.
I did not ask for validation, I asked for scripture which neither you nor your supporters have given. And, by the way, I am a pastor.
quote:
Your local pastor should be able to explain to you how God appoints leaders and how the leader's authority is delegated wheter it be in Church, Bible study etc...
Friend, I know the scriptures. That's why I know what you are talking about does not exist in the context to which you are trying to apply it. If you believe it does, you are more than welcome to give the scripture for it, in context please.
I would not think asking for a scriptural basis would be considered "strife." Perhaps, if the way you are replying to me is the way you treated your group, I have a good idea of why they "rebelled." As a pastor, I have no problem with anyone asking a scriptural basis for whatever I teach, preach, or do. I have no problem with sharing scripture with anyone, even with those that might disagree.
Now, I ask again, is there anyone who wishes to give scripture to support biblical authority/pastorial authority in this situation? If not, then we must conclude it does not exist and the OP is in error.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/2/2008 8:16:37 PM
|
|
|
ironsharpensiron
Posts: 147
Joined: 4/21/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
Hey, Bro_Shane, did you miss the part of the OP where Heanly4you is asking for advice and encouragement..? You, as always, like to dish out division, instead of giving encouragement.
Based upon your post tagline, 'numba one og thread killa,' that pretty much sums up what you are about.
Being a man of God, shouldn't you, and really everyone on these boards, be encouraging in a loving Godly manner..?
Take God out of the finely wrapped box you have him in and utilize the gifts He wants to give to you.
matthew
_____________________________
"As iron sharpens iron, so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend." Proverbs 27:17
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/2/2008 8:56:45 PM
|
|
|
Bro_Shane
Posts: 962
Joined: 8/4/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: ironsharpensiron
Hey, Bro_Shane, did you miss the part of the OP where Heanly4you is asking for advice and encouragement..? You, as always, like to dish out division, instead of giving encouragement.
Based upon your post tagline, 'numba one og thread killa,' that pretty much sums up what you are about.
Being a man of God, shouldn't you, and really everyone on these boards, be encouraging in a loving Godly manner..?
Take God out of the finely wrapped box you have him in and utilize the gifts He wants to give to you.
matthew
Friend, what good is encouragement when the endeavor is threatened by an attitude or ideal that is not to be found in scripture. As for my signature, it is a bit of fun. What I am about is putting forth the word of God. It is sharper than a two-edged sword - sometimes it is a comfort, sometimes it convicts. I have been on both sides (the latter mostly).
I do not have God in a box. What I do have is God's word and the Holy Spirit residing in me. With those and prayerful study I see things that sound biblical, but are not. And, rest assured, this includes myself.
Now, error is error no matter who is taking part. The OP is in error on this point. This should be plainly pointed ou for the OP's benefit as well as those who would encourgae the OP to continue in such error.
I appreciate the spirit in which you posted. I hope this clears things up a bit.
_____________________________
Prayer is not where we change God's mind, it is where He changes ours.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 9/7/2008 3:43:06 PM
|
|
|
terryjohn
Posts: 470
Joined: 3/23/2007
Status: offline
|
Leadership is by example and many true leaders are never chosen by men and neither do they have to be. You have to face it the group does not need you to tell them what to do for unbeleivers lord it over others but it is not so amongst beleivers. Now the reality is this group is not that Christain. Leadership is all about servanthood now men love leadership but not service. I once was made team leader of a team but it occured to me that that meant I was to lead by example so I told the group I would not tell them what needed to be done but rather let their faith and love for Christ be the guide in what we had to do and amazingly everyone did. Now if one were not to do anything then I could only suppose that Christ required nothing of them. That is if the Spirit of Christ will not lead them in all righteousness who am I to suppose I can?
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 10/1/2008 10:55:47 AM
|
|
|
Lynn_J
Posts: 67
Joined: 9/3/2008
Status: offline
|
I think many of you have made excellent points. From what I can tell, this Bible study is a group of coworkers gathered together but not part of a faith community and no leader has been specifically anointed to be the shepherd of these people. Therefore, a leader of a group such as this is really more of a facilitator than an authority figure. While some of these people may be disruptive, I think the word "rebellion" might be a bit strong in this case.
Also, encouragement comes in many different forms. Sometimes admonishment is more appropriate in certain situations. When we seek encouragement and advice from others, we need to seek with open minds, realizing that not everything presented to us will necessarily be exactly what we had hoped to hear. Constructive criticism, when given in love, can be very beneficial.
Peace,
Lynn
_____________________________
www.lynnjacobs-christianlifecoach.com
www.christianlifecoachingblog.blogspot.com
www.blogtalkradio.com/lynn-jacobs
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Team in rebellion to leadership - 10/1/2008 8:30:59 PM
|
|
|
gmc4Jesus
Posts: 227
Joined: 5/21/2006
From: Torrance, California
Status: offline
|
I looked at the OP and the current discussion. I'm going to focus on the OP.
1. It appears that some in the group may not have respect for you as their leader. I would suggest a Bible study in which everyone seeks Scriptures to define who God is.
2. You could build on that discussion to establish who Jesus is.
3. Once God, Jesus and the Bible are established as final authority in all matters of faith and practice, you can build on their relationship with Jesus Christ and learning to love God and love people. I would prefer to believe that the touble makers will come in line with Scripture or leave. Problem mostly solved.
4. Opps, Maybe I didn't put enough emphasis on prayer for guidance and a spirit of wisdom and love for the people to help you as you pursue this challenge.
One bummer - people are imperfect (and so am I). There will always be those who will challenge your faith and leadership.
I believe that almost all problems in all churches and Bible study groups would be resolved if we took the time to build a more passionate, personal and powerful relationship with Jesus Christ.
May God give you the Holy Spirit insight and wisdom to handle the situation in a way that honors Him and brings people to a closer relationship with Jesus Christ.
_____________________________
Let's talk about Jesus, His life and teachings at the www.gettingtoknowjesus.org Gospel Study Forum.
Home of "Getting To Know Jesus", a complete Bible study on the life and teachings of Jesus.
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
