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How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 10:10:36 AM
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Little_1
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quote:
The Apostle Paul
Romans 6:23-25
"But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."
When Paul says, "O wretched man that I am!" he does not imply a false humility that some men possess nor does he suggest that God looks on him as a useless and horrible person despite his feelings of wretchedness! What this passage does seem to suggest is that Paul is aware of his fallen nature and the war that goes on between his flesh and the spirit within.
Paul also points out an important factor in serving God and this factor has to do with his mind (as highlighted above). Elsewhere in the Bible we are told to "renew our minds". I believe Paul was able to serve God faithfully because he had his mind spiritually renewed; I also believe the same necessity of mind renewal is necessary to all God's people today.
The question is - how do we renew our minds?
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 8/17/2008 10:21:20 AM >
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 10:22:49 AM
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deliveredarling
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2Cr 10:5 {We are} destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and {we are} taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ,
it would seem that taking every thought captive and refocusing our thoughts on the things above will contribute to the renewing of our minds.
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"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 10:23:50 AM
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armydude
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IMHO, the best way to renew your mind is to stay in God's Word. Every morning read God's Word. Every morning talk to Him. The more you read His Word and talk to Him, you'll find your mind being renewed.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 3:02:06 PM
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colliefan
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Rom 12:1 - 2 (ESV) 1I appeal to you therefore, brothers,£ by the mercies of God,
to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.£
2Do not be conformed to this world,£
but be transformed by the renewal of your mind,
that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.£
First of all we are to consider ourselves as a living sacrifice; that our will is emeshed in His will doing this on a 24/7 basis
We are to stop letting the world push us into its mold, but let the HS form us into the image of Christ. As we continually medidate on His word from the times of its study, to the mundane issues of the day, our mind will be changed to the image of Christ.
When the times of testing will come, we will be able to think and act as would Christ Jesus so we will be His image in a fallen world.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 4:31:08 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1900
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quote:
how do we renew our minds?
Others have said good things but I think it ultimately comes down to being led by the Spirit.
Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God. . . ICor 2:12.
It is the know the things freely given to us by God that differentiates between spiritual man with renewed mind and thoughts and immature, fleshly carnal man. We can only know as we are known in intimate fellowship with the Savior.
That is why it can't be taught by man. It cannot be secondhand. It must be Spirit to spirit, Person to person, Life to life. It must be revealed to us and only then is it truly known and our minds renewed.
There is much regurgitation of what others have taught. That is not mind renewal. It might be part of the process. Scripture is certainly a significant part of the process. We must immerse ourselves in the word and allow the Word to do His work in us. But it must be a personal, first person, revelation that comes from His Spirit to mine.
It is His work to do. It is ours to cooperate. 
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 10:13:47 PM
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delete123
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By tranforming and the renewing of our mind. When we allow the Holy Spirit to renew our mind with His word we are being conformed and transformed.
Doesn't mean we won't repat our original mistake, but maybe more aware.
As we grow I believe we end up hating what we once thought was kopesetic. Which is how he wins the battle between flesh and spirit.
Once we hate what gave us pleasure, the Spirit won and then the battle continues.
Because we are apt and sometimes do backslide giving the flesh power again in which was already beaten in the original war.
I think each battle that had victory if/was had to be fought again becomes more difficult. You are familiar with the position and either reason your flesh or succumb to the Spirit
CRH
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 10:42:42 PM
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LCannon
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Paul again, Philippians 3:13-"Brethren, I do not consider that I have made it my own but one thing I do, forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead 14 I press on toward the goal[of further obedience]for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus."
From fledgling obedience, worship/service to perfect and eternal vulernability, reward and glory.
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only Bach. I am sure, however, that when they are together en famille they
play Mozart and then too our dear Lord listens with special pleasure."(Karl Barth)
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/17/2008 11:09:25 PM
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Walker311
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quote:
The question is - how do we renew our minds?
Our minds are not something to be conquered but rather something to be controlled. As Christians, if at some point in our lives we are unable to control our thoughts and our actions then it is obvious that we do not understand the concept of renewing our minds.
Renewing our minds is only possible when we make our relationship with Christ a priority. We cannot control our minds without supernatural help.
The Holy Spirit teaches us that true spiritual growth comes when we are obedient and the more obedient we are the more we become like Him. Our obedience comes because we love Him. Hence, our minds are being renewed.
Recapping:
1) Making Christ a priority above everything
2) Loving Him with our whole heart
3) Obedience
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/18/2008 11:15:34 PM
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colliefan
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Without falling into legalism, we need to put what we read/watch through the following filter'
Phil 4:7 - 9 (ESV) And the peace of God,
which surpasses all understanding,
will guard
your hearts
and your minds
in Christ Jesus.
Finally, brothers,
whatever is true,
whatever is honorable,
whatever is just,
whatever is pure,
whatever is lovely,
whatever is commendable,
if there is any excellence,
if there is anything worthy of praise,
think about these things.
9What you have learned
and received
and heard
and seen
in me—
[b]practice these things,
and the God of peace will be with you.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 12:23:13 AM
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URForgiven
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Little_1
The question is - how do we renew our minds?
We do not renew our minds, Christ renews our mind as we offer ourselves to Him. It is turning away from what we were before we were saved [in the world] and turning to Jesus. As we depend upon Him the Holy Spirit leads us into truth, and truth is what transforms our mind from the error of our old way of thinking.
Romans 12:1-2
"Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will"
Peace
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"Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit,
are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?" Galatians 3:3
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 2:23:48 AM
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zamdad
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I agree with Little1, there are some very good answers. Yet one thing about many of the answers that bothres me is how pious some of the resposes come across. I'm not sying that anyone is wrong in their response. It's just the use of Christianese (church language) skims over the question asked in the OP and gets into a holy huddle type conversation.
Little 1 was also right on in the assessment about what we put into our minds. What shapes our worldview? Armydude and Walker got right to the point without the liturgical verbiage. We have to make God a priority and spend time with Him daily.
OUr world today is saturated with mass media. We consume more information in a single day than a person would have consumed in one Sunday edition of the New York Times 100 years ago. We are bombarded with TV, radio, print, internet, even billboards. If we are not spending the time with Him, we are going to allow our thoughts and opinions be shaped by the information we take in; mostly from mass media.
Why does the culture influence the church more than vice versa? If we, the church, were spending the time with God we would have more of an influence on the culture. It would begin in our own homes. If we spend that time with Him, He will be the filter or lens through which we view the world.
And yes, LIttle 1, our actions are determined by our thoughts. If someone tells you they just did some act, that they were not thinking, tell them they're lying because we humans are incapable of action without giving some thought to the matter. This renewing of the mind means surrendering ones thought life to Christ.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 3:25:39 AM
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zamdad
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Should have edited the last post to close:
Renewing of the mind/repentance/obedience is a process, not an event.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 5:29:17 AM
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Little_1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
I agree with Little1, there are some very good answers. Yet one thing about many of the answers that bothers me is how pious some of the resposes come across. I'm not sying that anyone is wrong in their response. It's just the use of Christianese (church language) skims over the question asked in the OP and gets into a holy huddle type conversation.
zamdad, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "how 'pious' some of the responses come across"? Please could you explain what you mean by this?
Also, it is sometimes difficult to explain yourself online without using Christianese (church language). However, this is a section of the website where most people who are Christians and post in this particular section understand the terminology and if they don't - they are not shy in coming forward and asking for terminology to be explained better which is a good thing.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 8/19/2008 5:46:52 AM >
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 5:44:00 AM
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Little_1
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quote:
ORIGINAL: URForgiven
We do not renew our minds, Christ renews our mind as we offer ourselves to Him. It is turning away from what we were before we were saved [in the world] and turning to Jesus. As we depend upon Him the Holy Spirit leads us into truth, and truth is what transforms our mind from the error of our old way of thinking.
Romans 12:1-2
"Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will"
Peace
This is beautifully explained. Mind renewal has to begin with our willingness to be transformed - or as URForgiven explains: "as we offer ourselves to Him [the Holy Spirit]". Ittalics mine. God will not force 'His mind' upon us.
I found this link to a website which gives examples of mind renewal which may be helpful:
Mind renewal
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 4:08:02 PM
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stampinlady
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Thanks for posting the Philippians verse CollieFan. I refer back to it alot.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 6:34:54 PM
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Liveloved
Posts: 1900
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quote:
Why does the culture influence the church more than vice versa? If we, the church, were spending the time with God we would have more of an influence on the culture. It would begin in our own homes. If we spend that time with Him, He will be the filter or lens through which we view the world.
Zamdad has made a very good point. It is more than just accumulating Bible knowledge. The pastor yesterday was talking about the importance of having a biblical world view. But most in the church do not. Why not? And why don't those who have alot of Bible knowledge, are able to quote scripture, and talk the evangelical talk unable to think biblically and view life and life situations through the filter or lens Zamdad is referring to?
True, there is too much doing and too little listening. Too much talking and too little meditating. Too much studying and too little thinking. And too little prayer which is listening as well. It's because 'we' get in the way of Him. The whole renewal process is best described by John the Baptist, "He must increase and I must decrease." And that only happens as we sit quietly at His feet, humble ourselves, repent of our selfish, self loving ways, and invite and encourage Him to live His life in us and through us. URForgiven gave a good intro to this. So that's what we need to do. Will we?
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/19/2008 11:33:01 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
zamdad, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "how 'pious' some of the responses come across"? Please could you explain what you mean by this?
Also, it is sometimes difficult to explain yourself online without using Christianese (church language). However, this is a section of the website where most people who are Christians and post in this particular section understand the terminology and if they don't - they are not shy in coming forward and asking for terminology to be explained better which is a good thing.
I understand that this folder in particular is designed for those who are fluent in Christianese. Perhaps my use of the word "pious" comes from my present, frustrated, state of mind.
As a result of my profession I have witnessed too many pillars of the church/community get away with deviance while hiding behind flowing words of memorized scripture and churchianity language. For instance, I used to be a probation officer and I supervised a caseload of sex offenders. One particular man comes to mind who spoke fluent Christian and portrayted himself as a trustworthy minister of God's word. He gained the trust of families. Because of his advanced age and his facade, parents would trust their kids with him. IN public, all the kids loved him too. He was caught after 8 years of sexually abusing a girl from age 8 to 16. In treatment, while he claimed he did nothing wrong, that he was merely educating the girl, and that he never had an impure thought enter his mind, he disclosed that he had molested countless other children.
When it comes to a renewing of the mind, my job allowed me to be witness to the renewing of minds of many men and women. Yet, this elderly man was not about to examine the log in his own eye. IN his mind, he knew God and God was on his side.
There are several others I've witnessed fail to engage in the process of renewing the mind. Another one was a minister who also molested numerous kids. He was a little less verbally agressive than the first example, nonetheless, he was not about to change what had always worked for him.
Part of why I bring this up is I often wonder how invested we are in the growth and development of fellow believers? We seem to invest so much time and energy into bringing them "into the kingdom," yet once they enter the doors of the church and become familiar with the people and surroundings we neglect to grown and mature them. We live in a culture where, even within our own homes, we hardly know each other anymore. We're so busy achieving our own agendas that we hardly notice when others are having a renewal of the mind.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/20/2008 5:14:14 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 1488
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quote:
ORIGINAL: zamdad
quote:
Little_1
zamdad, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "how 'pious' some of the responses come across"? Please could you explain what you mean by this? ......
I understand that this folder in particular is designed for those who are fluent in Christianese. Perhaps my use of the word "pious" comes from my present, frustrated, state of mind......
......Part of why I bring this up is I often wonder how invested we are in the growth and development of fellow believers? We seem to invest so much time and energy into bringing them "into the kingdom," yet once they enter the doors of the church and become familiar with the people and surroundings we neglect to grown and mature them. We live in a culture where, even within our own homes, we hardly know each other anymore. We're so busy achieving our own agendas that we hardly notice when others are having a renewal of the mind.......
Thank you zamdad - I appreciate you taking the time to explain what you meant. I sense very much that you have been bitterly disappointed by Christians who 'talk the talk' but aren't so good when it comes to 'walking the talk' (if you will forgive the pun). You seem to have been badly disappointed by the situation you mention but sometimes where there is a complete lack of spiritual fruit we may wonder if there ever was true repentance and salvation in the first place because the Bible teaches that by their fruits we shall know them. Also, the Bible has guidance as to how to deal with a brother who confesses to know the Lord and who has been caught in sin (which I'm sure you are no doubt aware of).
I believe all of us have been disappointed by other Christians in certain ways (perhaps not always as dramatic as the experience you mention however). Also, I am sure we have all disappointed other Christians at some point in our Christian experience (not to mention our Heavenly Father). I used to have a certain Christian organisation on a pedestal for years and then I found through personal experience that they were not as 'perfect' as I thought they were. I was badly hurt and I remember about this time reading the text which says not to put your confidence in man or princes (Psalms). Other Christians (even those of high regard) can let us down just as we also can let others down ourselves. I have never forgotten that lesson. Whilst I respect many good Christian organisations, churches and Christians, I don't put my total confidence in any Christian organisation or individual. Only the Lord can be trusted to never let us down. Now that is not to say that I don't have good 'friendships' with other Christians or expect to see 'fruit' in the lives of Christians (and vice versa); however, I'm much more realistic about the fact that we all still have fallen natures and how much we need God's grace and mercy.
< Message edited by Little_1 -- 8/20/2008 9:18:24 AM >
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/20/2008 9:28:07 AM
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Little_1
Posts: 1488
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Liveloved
quote:
Why does the culture influence the church more than vice versa? If we, the church, were spending the time with God we would have more of an influence on the culture. It would begin in our own homes. If we spend that time with Him, He will be the filter or lens through which we view the world.
Zamdad has made a very good point. It is more than just accumulating Bible knowledge. The pastor yesterday was talking about the importance of having a biblical world view. But most in the church do not. Why not? And why don't those who have alot of Bible knowledge, are able to quote scripture, and talk the evangelical talk unable to think biblically and view life and life situations through the filter or lens Zamdad is referring to?
True, there is too much doing and too little listening. Too much talking and too little meditating. Too much studying and too little thinking. And too little prayer which is listening as well. It's because 'we' get in the way of Him. The whole renewal process is best described by John the Baptist, "He must increase and I must decrease." And that only happens as we sit quietly at His feet, humble ourselves, repent of our selfish, self loving ways, and invite and encourage Him to live His life in us and through us. URForgiven gave a good intro to this. So that's what we need to do. Will we?
This is very relevant, useful and true.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/20/2008 7:05:53 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
I sense very much that you have been bitterly disappointed by Christians who 'talk the talk' but aren't so good when it comes to 'walking the talk' (if you will forgive the pun). You seem to have been badly disappointed by the situation you mention but sometimes where there is a complete lack of spiritual fruit we may wonder if there ever was true repentance and salvation in the first place because the Bible teaches that by their fruits we shall know them. Also, the Bible has guidance as to how to deal with a brother who confesses to know the Lord and who has been caught in sin (which I'm sure you are no doubt aware of).
While there is/has been disappointment in brothers and sisters who don't walk their talk, there is another aspect to this disappointment as well. I've seen far too many pastors, lay leaders and well intended Christians duped by the con artists posing as believers. All too often I've seen church leaders come to the defense of a poser completely ignoring the warnings placed before them. They usually retort that they are working on the offenders relationship with Christ and that the offender is no longer the person he/she once was. And, all too frequently, they will deny their gut when things seem amiss within the congregation. It all too frequently seems that people don't want to know what's under the mask of those they are ministering too. How can one have a renewing of the mind if no one is willing to explore where the mind has been and how it has previously functioned?
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/20/2008 7:10:57 PM
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deliveredarling
Posts: 1989
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quote:
While there is/has been disappointment in brothers and sisters who don't walk their talk, there is another aspect to this disappointment as well. I've seen far too many pastors, lay leaders and well intended Christians duped by the con artists posing as believers. All too often I've seen church leaders come to the defense of a poser completely ignoring the warnings placed before them. They usually retort that they are working on the offenders relationship with Christ and that the offender is no longer the person he/she once was. And, all too frequently, they will deny their gut when things seem amiss within the congregation. It all too frequently seems that people don't want to know what's under the mask of those they are ministering too. How can one have a renewing of the mind if no one is willing to explore where the mind has been and how it has previously functioned?
I agree with 100%. It's sad and scary. Red flags everywhere and no wants to notice out of fear of offending another, So many want to say we are judgmental etc just because we see the flags. Sometimes, I have found the easiest way is to step back and let them get bit.
_____________________________
"Now no one after lighting a lamp covers it over with a container, or puts it under a bed: but he puts it on a lampstand, in order that those who come in may see the light."
Luke 8:16
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RE: How do we renew our minds? - 8/20/2008 7:17:06 PM
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zamdad
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quote:
Sometimes, I get rubbed up the wrong way by certain responses on site and I end up judging my brethren. I likewise believe that I too rub others up the wrong way. Sometimes these situations can occur due to our differing cultures; sometimes because 'confidence in the Lord' is mistaken for arrogance; and sometimes it will be spiritual immaturity on my part or the part of others.
I think this brings up another good point with regard to worldview. How much of our worldview is formed by our culture? Not just the media, but the communities we live in? For instance, most of us posting on this site are probably from middle class communities. How we think and act is affected by and a product of where we live. We tend to miniister to the poor from our own middle class values, completly disregarding the values of the other culture. We tend to think that everyone from the culture of poverty wants what we have. Yet, we're asking them to come in and assimilate into a culture that is completey foriegn to them. Sometimes it seems that we lack the ability to see things from outside the perspective of self. We can only relate to things from our own life experience. Sometimes, however, we have to step outside of our comfort zones to gain some experience from a different perspective.
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The two hardest things to handle: failure and success.
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However, we can counteract this by spending more time listening to and reading the Word of God and also walking in the ways of the Word. We may need to make determined choices regarding what we allow ourselves to watch and listen to. Mind renewal may also mean that we need to reconsider our friendships, the company we keep and the places we go to. There's a quote which says that: "We are called to reach out to the world with the Gospel but that does not mean that we are to become part of the world by doing so!" There is a difference in "being in the world" but "not of the world!" (although some Christians find it difficult to grasp this concept). 
