quote:

ORIGINAL: FurGodWurLivin
Secondly, the thread about "this generation" displays nothing more than an audacious belief in promises in the Bible that are as yet unfulfilled. Combined with the claims the OP makes in the opening, it amounts to a very Charismatic faith. This is not a belief in "superheroes", but a belief in "Greater Works" (John 14:12).

• Oil from Heaven has dripped from his hands.
  
• Jesus has literally walked up to him
  
• He believes that the following are happening now (because he's heard stories about these things): people flying, teleporting, able to move things through their own faith, being able to stop storms, wind and rain by their own command.
  
• He believes that Christians are going to be like superheroes and that is what is meant by “truly walking as Sons and Daughters of God”
  
• Walking on water will be common
  
• Mass amounts of people will be raised from the dead by these “Sons of God”
  
• Youth groups will go empty entire hospitals by healing the people inside
  
• These “Sons of God” will be super strong and able to run at extreme speeds, fly and levitate.
  
• People will get healed just because they were in the same room as these “Sons of God”
  
• When these “Sons of God” walk through Wal-Mart everyone in the store will get slain in the spirit.
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

age alone doesn't guarantee correct or incorrect. i don't' think adam having an opinion that is different from the older people here equates to disrespect. certainly one can "disrespect" a pov without feeling or expressing disrespect towards a person or their walk with Christ.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

age alone doesn't guarantee correct or incorrect. i don't' think adam having an opinion that is different from the older people here equates to disrespect. certainly one can "disrespect" a pov without feeling or expressing disrespect towards a person or their walk with Christ.

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

age alone doesn't guarantee correct or incorrect. i don't' think adam having an opinion that is different from the older people here equates to disrespect. certainly one can "disrespect" a pov without feeling or expressing disrespect towards a person or their walk with Christ.

Just an FYI - many of us here are the same age or younger than Adam.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

age alone doesn't guarantee correct or incorrect. i don't' think adam having an opinion that is different from the older people here equates to disrespect. certainly one can "disrespect" a pov without feeling or expressing disrespect towards a person or their walk with Christ.

Just an FYI - many of us here are the same age or younger than Adam.

i was addressing a specific statement that appears to have since been edited/removed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

age alone doesn't guarantee correct or incorrect. i don't' think adam having an opinion that is different from the older people here equates to disrespect. certainly one can "disrespect" a pov without feeling or expressing disrespect towards a person or their walk with Christ.

Just an FYI - many of us here are the same age or younger than Adam.

i was addressing a specific statement that appears to have since been edited/removed.

quote:

ORIGINAL: OLEEguacamole

you'll get there. trust me.

quote:

Adam,
It seems you come to this thread with an agenda. I didn't start the thread with any agenda other then examining things of concern being voiced by the Ramp and concern over Joel's Army and other latter rain theologies being presented.

quote:

It is the very nature of the "time in spirit" that is concerning. These kids have been taugh "marinating" or "soaking" by the likes of Bentley, Patricia King and others. The OP did directly reference Mike Bickle and talked about a breaker annointing.

quote:

In terms of the 2nd thread that was troubling, it basically looks for certain believers to be elevated to a "special" states. No where in the bible are any of what he references promised.

quote:

Some of them will be almost invincible:

"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
And through the rivers, they will not overflow you
When you walk through the fire, you will not be scorched,
Nor will the flame burn you." (Isaiah 43:2)

"..And if they drink any deadly poison, it will not hurt them" (Mark 16:18)

"Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you." (Luke 10:19)



Some will be able to move things without even touching them just because they believe:


"Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22)

"If you have faith the size of a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you." (Matthew 17:20)



This generation will be a generation of Healers:

"…they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover." (Mark 16:17-18)

"Then the lame will leap like a deer,
And the tongue of the mute will shout for joy…" (Isaiah 35:6)

quote:

As to Jesus Camp, yes it was heavily edited and manipulated. But it doesn't change the fact of the connections to Extreme Prophetic and others engaging in spreading doctrines of demons INMHO. And this isn't about WOF, Signs and wonders bashing. It is about standing for what is true. The post is all about concern for children.

quote:

Just an FYI - many of us here are the same age or younger than Adam.

quote:

Well it's one thing to dispute a POV, and another to claim that there's mass hysteria here and that people who disagree with him are being juvenile (which really makes me LOL considering the person who posted that has a sig that says, "this is me, not being impressed").

quote:

Ah, well.. it is still good for some to know that we're all not old fogies.

you'll get there. trust me.

And I'm sure there are a good number on here near Adam's age, but I'm pretty sure many of us are quite a bit older than 20. I've got a daughter who is 19 (and one who is 15)

quote:

I feel it with every single passing day and every new gray hair my 7 month old gives me.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stateofgrace

To summarize what that poster proclaimed:

• Oil from Heaven has dripped from his hands.
  
• Jesus has literally walked up to him
  
• He believes that the following are happening now (because he's heard stories about these things): people flying, teleporting, able to move things through their own faith, being able to stop storms, wind and rain by their own command.
  
• He believes that Christians are going to be like superheroes and that is what is meant by “truly walking as Sons and Daughters of God”
  
• Walking on water will be common
  
• Mass amounts of people will be raised from the dead by these “Sons of God”
  
• Youth groups will go empty entire hospitals by healing the people inside
  
• These “Sons of God” will be super strong and able to run at extreme speeds, fly and levitate.
  
• People will get healed just because they were in the same room as these “Sons of God”
  
• When these “Sons of God” walk through Wal-Mart everyone in the store will get slain in the spirit.
  

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

These people have nothing but feelings of grandeur. And they want to use a twisted view of Scripture to try and justify it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: stateofgrace

quote:

ORIGINAL: earthless

These people have nothing but feelings of grandeur. And they want to use a twisted view of Scripture to try and justify it.

I find that attitude very typical among such groups.

Even back when I was in my twenties and attending Che Ahn's and Lou Engle's PDI church, we were told that the "Institutional Church" had lost sight of what it meant to be New Testament Christians, and we were the ones restoring that.

I have heard the language of WOF/Prophetic/etc. for years, even some of the LR stuff, but this levitating and teleporting stuff....LOL, ten years ago if people were talking about levitating and out-of-body experiences on some kind of Christian message board, others would have recognized it as the influence of Eastern Religions or New Age.

I was discussing some of this the other night with my 15 yo, and here is my theory. Each "generation" has distinctive characteristics based on things they are exposed to - culture, life-changing events like 9/11, etc. While not every person in those generations displays all the characteristics, or all in the same way, there are distinctives that hold true for many in that generation. An example is that those who grew up during the great depression developed extremely thrifty habits that they continued long after necessary - cutting napkins in half, washing out bread bags to re-use them (my parents still do this).

The generation who are teens and young adults today have grown up with near-total-immersion-video-games. No form of entertainment in the past has so blurred the lines between illusion and reality. I think that for many in this generation. the potential to become a "superhero" would be very appealing. Look at "Spiderman" and the tv series "Heroes" - all about ordinary people who one day discover they have super powers. Many other movies and television shows have the same theme.

Video games utilize gut instinct and quick reactions. Also, there is the rush of emotion that happens after attaining a new level, etc. I think that this generation are also very much focused on their emotions and instincts as a guide to whether or not a situation is "right" or "wrong."

quote:

ORIGINAL: selahgirl

Matthew 15
The MESSAGE: What Pollutes Your Life

1-2 After that, Pharisees and religion scholars came to Jesus all the way from Jerusalem, criticizing, "Why do your disciples play fast and loose with the rules?"

3-9But Jesus put it right back on them. "Why do you use your rules to play fast and loose with God's commands? God clearly says, 'Respect your father and mother,' and, 'Anyone denouncing father or mother should be killed.' But you weasel around that by saying, 'Whoever wants to, can say to father and mother, What I owed to you I've given to God.' That can hardly be called respecting a parent. You cancel God's command by your rules. Frauds! Isaiah's prophecy of you hit the bull's-eye:

These people make a big show of saying the right thing,
but their heart isn't in it.
They act like they're worshiping me,
but they don't mean it.
They just use me as a cover
for teaching whatever suits their fancy."

10-11He then called the crowd together and said, "Listen, and take this to heart. It's not what you swallow that pollutes your life, but what you vomit up."

12Later his disciples came and told him, "Did you know how upset the Pharisees were when they heard what you said?"

13-14Jesus shrugged it off. "Every tree that wasn't planted by my Father in heaven will be pulled up by its roots. Forget them. They are blind men leading blind men. When a blind man leads a blind man, they both end up in the ditch."

15Peter said, "I don't get it. Put it in plain language."

16-20Jesus replied, "You, too? Are you being willfully stupid? Don't you know that anything that is swallowed works its way through the intestines and is finally defecated? But what comes out of the mouth gets its start in the heart. It's from the heart that we vomit up evil arguments, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, lies, and cussing. That's what pollutes. Eating or not eating certain foods, washing or not washing your hands—that's neither here nor there."

[keep in mind each of those have spiritual and physical significance... murder of people by murdering their reputation thru gossip (causing people to separate themselves from them, to reject them, to kill fellowship/relationship with them), fornication/adulteries by receiving anything into our spirit/life that is not of God... evil arguments as opposed to good arguments that are done in love to build up the people of God in their faith... you get the point...]

There's always a double standard at work and people love to swing to one extreme or the other and to deny that they are embracing an extreme. Often times, that denial is rooted in the fact that they are deceived themselves. The young refer to the older generation as "old fogies" living in a fog, brainless, senile, out of touch with what God is doing in the current generation... and yet, the older saints remain part of this current generation of the church, with great significance and purpose. Just because you age, does it mean that you have no relevance, no voice, no awareness of what the Spirit of God is doing afresh?

On the other hand... when I was young I met with constant criticism in the church world for having an opinion about Scripture. The pat answer to dismiss my passion and heart-felt attempts to understand and to live out Scripture was, "you'll understand it when you are older." I remember thinking that I couldn't wait until I had gray hair some day so I could voice my heart for God and all that I felt he was saying and revealing.

Both extremes had negative aspects, and yet both extremes were also valid in ways. The older I get the more I understand things with a richness... I understand God as Father/Daddy in a whole new way when I became the parent. Then I understood him and myself on an even deeper level when my children became teens. The conflicts of life and relationships over time opened my eyes and made me wiser about alot of things. Things that I could have never understood when I was younger.

In my youth, I was constantly asking God about things that my elders didn't have answers for, and he often answered them. I think because I asked... not because I was young. The elders in my life didn't have to deal with the things my generation was dealing with, so they didn't have all the answers I needed to walk out my walk. As God taught me about such things, I gained an insight that they lacked. However, I could go to them and discuss what God had said and there was always some wisdom they would add that would make my understanding even richer.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
There is nothing new under the sun.
The devils schemes are predictable and that's why we're not ignorant of his devices.

Satan just packages it differently for every generation. As long as he can keep us divided, the young will understand the packaging but not always have the experience. The old will have much experience and recognize the enemy's tactics... but they don't always see thru the packaging because it is new and unfamiliar. If we could bridge the gap and respect one another, work together, and love as God loves... we could be an unstoppable force. We would see the deceptions and schemes of the enemy so clearly revealed as the church, as the whole family of God. There is power in numbers, there is power in generations bound together in the love of Christ.

The stench of the Pharisee Church permeates so many aspects of the church today. Even this dividing of loyalties and families. This is not what God meant when he said he came to divide families. Choosing Christ when your family rejects him is a whole other ball game... that never results in justifying arrogance or being unkind to people. God disciplines with love and so should we, not with hatefulness.

I believe in gifts and prophecy and the works of the Spirit in our lives with manifestations... but I also KNOW the counterfeit that masks itself with similar works. It's more than just "DOING THE STUFF" ... it's "BEING THE STUFF." The problem is that most people that I see in such movements like this become very unkind and mean-spirited to parents and to anyone that disagrees with them. Their zeal blinds them to the real fruit of much of their behavior... and they become those blind following the blind into the ditch. Someone is teaching the young. All this talk about believing this stuff and not being told differently based on your youth is a bunch of hooey. Some adult somewhere is teaching it to you.

Karen Wheaton, John Wimber, Billy Graham... who ever the leaders of movements... they are almost always old people who teach it to younger people who teach it to younger people. We follow. We're sheep. It's our nature. We follow the voice of the shepherd. We just better be sure the shepherd we're following is genuine and not just wearing a fluffy white mask. We've all been fooled at some point in our life. This comment isn't meant to dis anyone, and it isn't directed at any one post. I haven't even read everything said very thoroughly. There's just alot of stuff every where in the air of the church world at the moment that is creating a stench.

We really need a return to the word of God, the law for the NT church... you can call me foolish for using it as the light for my path, you can say I'm an old fogie cuz I refuse to go along with anything that doesn't measure up to the order and breathing reality of it, you can call me blurry minded, living in a fog, old-fashioned, out-dated, and foolish... but I believe the Bible. I believe it's the spoken living words of Christ and I can feel his very breath on my face every time I open it and begin to read and I hear him speaking. I love people, I am so very thankful for good, committed leaders who sacrifice so much... but they will never be above God in my heart... and their teachings or the teachings of a movement will never be above the teachings of Jesus. My salvation is rooted in what Jesus said and did... not in the work of the Holy Spirit. I love the Holy Spirit, he is God, he manifests the power of God and walks beside me and enables me to accomplish the example of Christ in my own life. But I'm commanded to be like Jesus as the Spirit leads me in that work.

Our youth pastor said something so profound last night that has stuck in my head. We are studying the Lord's prayer and last night he was teaching on knowing the will of God. He said that the will of God is not something that we cannot know... God wants us to know his will, he commands us to perform it. It was the commission God gave to Christ and he gave to us. I love the way this pastor expressed the simplicity of such Truth... "We know the will of God by doing what Jesus did... if we are doing what he did... we are doing the will of God."

He went on to explain... The will of God is for us to be patient with people. The will of God is to show mercy to people when they are unkind. The will of God is to help the poor, the widow and the orphan... the will of God is to love your neighbor... The will of God is doing EVERYTHING Jesus did. Walk thru the Bible, make a note of everything Jesus did, and then do it, become it, be like him.

The problem I see with swinging over to extremes by such movements is that the fruit begins to rot on the vine, right there in the middle of the church, still wearing the name of Christ, but not reproducing anything healthy or that resembles him at all. Most poeple I know caught up in over-emphasizing the gifts are very mean people. Much like the description of the Pharisees above. If that is the model such church leaders are modeling to the youth, justifying arrogance and rebellion and disrespect against anyone that opposes living in such extremes -- or who opposes their leader (masking it with a spiritual elitist mask as they use all the right buzz words)... it is a dangerous model, and I don't see Christ anywhere in it. Vomit... just like the lukewarm in Revelation. They put on a good show, but they are lukewarm and putrid in demonstrating the LOVE OF CHRIST.

Asuza Street Prohecies of 1906:

In the last days just before the return of Christ..."

1) There will be an over emphasis on power rather than righteousness.
2) There will be an over emphasis on praise to a God they no longer pray to.
3) There will be an over emphasis on the gifts oof the Spirit rather than the Lordship of Christ."

and that was from a Pentecostal minister. I wrote that in my Bible as a young, new Christian, 21 years old. And I find it more true today at 43 than at any time in my walk. I believe the coming of the Lord is so very close. I hope this hasn't made anyone feel as though i am singling you out. That was not my intent. Just some observations I've made and been thinking through.

Love - genuine love - to you guys <3