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Grammar and punctuation question - 1/25/2010 9:33:14 PM
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cih92
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Does the following sentence have use correct grammar and punctuation?
Acts 15:8-9 says, "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith."
Is it grammatically correct to say, "Acts 15:8-9 says" or "Acts 15:8-9 say"?
Is it correct to place a comma after the word "says" or "say" and then give the quote?
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 1/25/2010 9:52:13 PM
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lemon_sorbet
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I think it's correct to say "say" because although there is more than one verse involved, it is a "package" of verses and is therefore referred to as singular instead of plural*. As for the comma, I think it goes after say, but that one I am less sure of.
*This is American English. Sometimes British English is the opposite and may use the plural. Ex: "The band are traveling to Scotland this summer."
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 1/28/2010 1:34:35 PM
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uncabeeil
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From: Joisey. Got a problem wit dat?
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It should be "says" because you're talking about a singular piece of scripture. Also don't need the comma after "says" because you're quoting out of a book, not quoting a person.
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 1/28/2010 11:46:24 PM
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lemon_sorbet
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Yup that's right. I said "say" but that was a typo. I can't believe I missed the crucial "s"!
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 1/28/2010 11:59:06 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: uncabeeil
It should be "says" because you're talking about a singular piece of scripture. Also don't need the comma after "says" because you're quoting out of a book, not quoting a person.
Unk Beeil, you're correct about the verb form, but......
I'm gonna get even pickier and argue that the word should be states, since the Bible does not actually talk. And The Chicago Manual of Style, 15th Edition does direct to use a comma after the introductory verb before quoted material. A colon is employed for a longer or more formal quotation.
Here are the options:
Acts 15:8-9 says, "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith."
Acts 15:8-9 states, "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith."
Acts 15:8-9 states that "God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith."
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 1/30/2010 3:36:00 PM
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9drtr
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To answer the OP, you should definitely use the singular.
Elena, I would prefer "says" in informal writing, and "states" in formal writing. Either way, Chicago Manual of Stylistic Horrors or not, I like the comma.
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/4/2010 12:41:47 AM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PastorPowerPoints
I know past tense is a bad thing, but in some cases "said" would work better by helping the flow of the sentence.
If the instance occurred in the past, yes --- for example, Jesus said, "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son ... ."
But when one is quoting text --- be it the Bible or some other source --- present tense is correct, since the text still communicates its message in the present.
The way the OP currently is imbedding the quote, it needs to be in present tense.
quote:
ORIGINAL: PastorPowerPoints
States is a little to technical, when preaching, it's good to relate to your audience making it more inviting and helpful.
True, but we don't know that the OP is talking about preaching. He/she might be talking about a paper for school, about a devotional writing, or some other genre of writing.
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/11/2010 12:32:01 AM
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gralan
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my past tense have had holes in them so I've had to get new tense.
I'm glad someone is asking this question, because I slaughter the English language.
How about putting it this way: In Chapter/verse we read:
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/18/2010 4:25:06 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gralan
my past tense have had holes in them so I've had to get new tense.
Are they made of animal skins... or canvas? Heh, heh...
[quote}How about putting it this way: In Chapter/verse we read:
Yes, that works too.
Here's how it would be styled (bolding mine, for readability):
In John 3:16, we read: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life" (KJV).
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/18/2010 5:53:48 PM
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Kerrlaw
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Or the legal version:
Acts 15:8-9 states, avers, and sets forth (including, but no representation is made that said passage is limited to, due to varying translations) the following, "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith."
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/22/2010 9:58:35 AM
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DaveW
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
Is it grammatically correct to say, "Acts 15:8-9 says" or "Acts 15:8-9 say"?
Is it correct to place a comma after the word "says" or "say" and then give the quote? It would be correct to use "states" unless you are refering to an audio version of the bible. (although I use 'says' myself).
As to the comma, the latest grammer class I took (2 months ago) the instructor said to avoid using commas anywhere. In that sentance the proper punctuation would be a colon.
Acts 15:8-9 states: "And God, who knows the heart....."
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/22/2010 10:28:53 AM
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rapturefish
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quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
Does the following sentence have use correct grammar and punctuation?
Acts 15:8-9 says, "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us; and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith."
Is it grammatically correct to say, "Acts 15:8-9 says" or "Acts 15:8-9 say"?
Is it correct to place a comma after the word "says" or "say" and then give the quote?
One scripture reference, so treat it as a singular person. Being a scripture, the personal pronoun 'it' is the equivalent. With 'it' we use 'it says', so it's the same with the scripture reference. If I used more than one scripture reference to say the same thing, then I would use 'say' as in 'they say'. Think of it this way:
John says, "Jesus is Lord."
John and Matthew say, "Jesus is Lord."
and note the following:
John 3:16 and Acts 16:31 say, in effect, "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved."
As for the comma, leave it in as it is standard for direct quotations to have one. If it's a quote used to complete a statement that is itself not directly quoted however, then I would not use a comma:
If we believe Paul and tell others to "believe in the Lord Jesus" for salvation (Acts 16:31), then the world will be the better for it.
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/22/2010 9:26:42 PM
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Elena1030
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rapturefish
quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: cih92
Is it grammatically correct to say, "Acts 15:8-9 says" or "Acts 15:8-9 say"?
Is it correct to place a comma after the word "says" or "say" and then give the quote? It would be correct to use "states" unless you are refering to an audio version of the Bible. (although I use 'says' myself).
As to the comma, in the latest grammar class I took (2 months ago), the instructor said to avoid using commas anywhere. In that sentence, the proper punctuation would be a colon.
Acts 15:8-9 states: "And God, who knows the heart … ."
To think whole books have been written about punctuation, including the hand grenade that is the comma. I can understand avoiding using commas since one can actually get by enough without them and still understand things, but you can't avoid them altogether as they do at times change the whole meaning of things by their inclusion.
In Lynne Truss' famous book Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation, the book's title illustration show just how one comma can do just that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eats,_Shoots_&_Leaves
The colon is just one solution in order to bypass the comma confusion altogether. It is not the only solution, and I suspect and say that the comma is more proper and predates the colon convention.
Yep, the omission of a comma can change the meaning of a sentence as well.
As far as the comma preceding a section of quoted text, please see my reply upthread.
I copyedit for a living, so I have to know about these things. 
In college, as an English major, I used a colon before most quoted text, but that was a more formal style.
In the examples given throughout the thread, I believe that a comma would suffice in a more casual form of writing, depending on the length of the quoted matter.
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Prayer thread for singles who desire to marry someday
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RE: Grammar and punctuation question - 2/23/2010 6:36:22 AM
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DaveW
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From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: rapturefish
To think whole books have been written about punctuation, including the hand grenade that is the comma. I can understand avoiding using commas since one can actually get by enough without them and still understand things, but you can't avoid them altogether as they do at times change the whole meaning of things by their inclusion.
In Lynne Truss' famous book "Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation" the book's title illustration show just how one comma can do just that: Yeah - that was an interesting example. The instructor in the recent course I took had a real life example. The case happened in Indiana and she gave the actual names which I do not recall.
A rather wealthy man died and left his estate to be divided equally between his children A, B, C and D. The way the probate judge took that line was that it was to be divided 3 ways with A and B each getting a third of the estate. C and D got to split a third. The way he intrepreted the commas was that they seperated equal groups and if the deceased wanted it split into 4 equal parts he should have had a comma after C as well.
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Avatar is my son Caleb and Leah on their wedding 12/20/09
=======================
Winner of 2010 "best in "He Says"
=======================
Our CD is available here:
http://cdbaby.com/cd/dswaggoner
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the series comma! (Or the serial comma. Whatever it's called.)