|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 8:34:35 AM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
How were the Old Testament Believers saved? I believed the OT believers were saved under the Old Covenant. The NT believers, on the other hand, are saved under the New Covenant. Both required faith but through different covenants. I've heard some say the OT believers were saved by putting their faith in Jesus Christ. This theory is ludicrous because Christ did not appear until the New Testament. I've heard others say OT believers were saved by the blood of Christ. Again this theory is obsurd because the blood of Christ was not shed until thousands of years later at Calvary. I also heard people say the OT believers were saved upon hearing of Jesus Christ through the OT Prophets. What? Show me that verse. These are all theories that are floating around and I don't think any of it is true. So what do I believe? Please see my model below.
Here is what I believe:
1. OT believers were saved under the Old Covenant.
2. OT & NT Believers are both saved by faith.
3. OT believers went straight to heaven after they died.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 9:29:52 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
Hebrews 11 says that people prior to the cross were saved by faith. The NT tells us NOBODY was saved by the Law.
And though we see the cross and resurrection occurring at a specific point in time, God's perspective is different. A few verses to consider:
1 Peter 1:20
For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times for the sake of you
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4
just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 9:34:03 AM
|
|
|
MysterySolved
Posts: 309
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
How were the Old Testament Believers saved?
Regardless of what covenantal period one happens to be born in, everyone is and always has been saved in the same way, by faith in God.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 9:52:53 AM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
MysterSolved I totally agree. Although we might be living under a New Covenant, I believe both the OT & NT believers are saved via *faith* in God. Since the bible says that God is one, its safe to say both the OT & NT believers put their trust in the *same* God.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 10:10:39 AM
|
|
|
MysterySolved
Posts: 309
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
MysterSolved I totally agree. Although we might be living under a New Covenant, I believe both the OT & NT believers are saved *via* faith in God. Since the bible says that God is one, its safe to say that both the OT & NT believers put their trust in the same God. I hope this was your point of emphasis.
It was. The means that God uses to save is His Son, Jesus Christ, who was and is the promised Messiah. They looked forward to a Messiah to save them, with the hope of eternal life. We look to the living Messiah, Jesus Christ, who has saved us - not with just the hope of eternal life, but with the present reality of eternal life by our spiritual union with Jesus Christ, who alone has eternal life.
We got the better deal.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 11:40:08 AM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
I agree with your first post but I disagree wiyh your second post. The OT believers were already saved under the Old Covenant. I'll take it one step further. I don't think the OT believers ever heard of Jesus Christ. Unless you can show me a verse stating otherwise.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 1:06:02 PM
|
|
|
rcjames
Posts: 7701
Joined: 7/15/2005
From: Oklahoma
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I agree with your first post but I disagree wiyh your second post. The OT believers were already saved under the Old Covenant. I'll take it one step further. I don't think the OT believers ever heard of Jesus Christ. Unless you can show me a verse stating otherwise.
All the Jews that had Faith in God before Christ and never accept Christ are saved unto what?
Thanks
RC
_____________________________
Just a country Preacher's humble opinion
Read the first chapter of my latest book here;
http://www.deliveranceofsara.com
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:20:30 PM
|
|
|
MysterySolved
Posts: 309
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
I agree with your first post but I disagree wiyh your second post. The OT believers were already saved under the Old Covenant. I'll take it one step further. I don't think the OT believers ever heard of Jesus Christ. Unless you can show me a verse stating otherwise.
Those under the old covenant were well aware of the Messiah. Jesus Christ is the Messiah.
Not sure what you mean by saved under the old covenant, as a covenant, old or new, cannot save.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:27:50 PM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
You said "Jesus Christ is the Messiah" and "the OT Believers were fully aware of the Messiah." This means, according to your logic, the OT believers must have been fully aware of Jesus Christ. Okay now I challenge you to back this up scripture.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:30:54 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
You said Jesus Christ is the Messiah and the OT Believer were fully aware of the Messiah. Hence, your concluding the OT believers were fully aware of Jesus Christ. This is what you are saying right? If your going to preach the OT believers were aware of Jesus Christ, you need to back that up with scripture.
Christ means Messiah, it's the Greek translation of the Hebrew word for Messiah. Jesus Messiah is no different than Jesus Christ.
The OT believers did not know His name, but they knew about the promise of His coming.
In any case, it was faith, not keeping of Law nor sacrificing of animals that saved believers in the OT.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:39:14 PM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
MysterSolved please show me a verse where it states the OT believers were fully aware that Jesus Christ was the Messiah.
< Message edited by Johnny_ -- 5/28/2010 3:46:02 PM >
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:45:32 PM
|
|
|
MysterySolved
Posts: 309
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
MysterSolved please show me a verse where it states the OT believers were fully aware of Jesus Christ. Lets put semantics aside. (Messiah, Son of God, or Jesus Christ). Show me that verse.
My friend, you are misunderstanding what I have written. Perhaps another can explain it in a way that you can understand.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:51:15 PM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
Just answer me this question with a yes or no.
a. Jesus Christ is the Messiah
b. The OT believers were aware of the Messiah
c. Therefore, the OT believers were aware of Jesus Christ
Is this your position? Yes or No
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 3:55:49 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
a. Jesus Christ is the Messiah
That means exactly the same as:
Jesus Messiah is the Messiah
or
Jesus Christ is the Christ
Again, the NT informs us that it was through faith, not Law that believers were saved in the OT.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 4:03:38 PM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
MysterySolved, I'm just asking for is simple yes or no. So that members can see your position against my position. And they can come to their own conclusion based on what they've read.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 4:05:21 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
MysterySolved all I'm asking for is simple yes or no. So that members can see your position against my position. And they can come to their own conclusion based on what they've read.
Don't you care what other members have to say or is this just yours and MysterSolved's discussion thread?
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 4:24:02 PM
|
|
|
MysterySolved
Posts: 309
Joined: 3/2/2010
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
Just answer me this question with a yes or no.
a. Jesus Christ is the Messiah
b. The OT believers were aware of the Messiah
Is this your position?
Yes
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 4:34:31 PM
|
|
|
Johnny_
Posts: 600
Joined: 11/26/2006
From: California
Status: offline
|
I noticed you deleted C.  MysterySolved thank you for being a good trooper. Have a wonderful day.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 4:44:55 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
c. Therefore, the OT believers were aware of Christ, which is another name for Messiah
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 5:16:31 PM
|
|
|
Jabez.cd
Posts: 54
Joined: 2/15/2007
Status: offline
|
We are not saved by some vague acknowledgement or belief that Jesus is God. Even demons have that understanding. Rather, both O.T and N.T. believers are saved by their faith in the promises (a.k.a Word) of God. Specifically it is the belief that God would fullfill His promise and by His actions (not ours) defeat the works of Satan and the curse of death. We have an advantage over O.T. believers, because we have this promise made more certain. As John says in the very beginning of his Gospel, the Word was made flesh. O.T. believers only had the promises of God (no small thing) We have the promises of God fullfilled in Christ. There is only one faith that saves and that is faith in God's promises to reconcile us to Himself which has was fullfilled in Jesus and witnessed to us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/28/2010 5:18:01 PM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Jabez.cd
We are not saved by some vague acknowledgement or belief that Jesus is God. Even demons have that understanding. Rather, both O.T and N.T. believers are saved by their faith in the promises (a.k.a Word) of God. Specifically it is the belief that God would fullfill His promise and by His actions (not ours) defeat the works of Satan and the curse of death. We have an advantage over O.T. believers, because we have this promise made more certain. As John says in the very beginning of his Gospel, the Word was made flesh. O.T. believers only had the promises of God (no small thing) We have the promises of God fullfilled in Christ. There is only one faith that saves and that is faith in God's promises to reconcile us to Himself which has been was fullfilled in Jesus and witnessed to us by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles.
Excellent post, well put!
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 5/29/2010 6:49:53 AM
|
|
|
rawr.ben
Posts: 2218
Joined: 5/16/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Johnny_
Just answer me this question with a yes or no.
a. Jesus Christ is the Messiah
b. The OT believers were aware of the Messiah
c. Therefore, the OT believers were aware of Jesus Christ
Is this your position? Yes or No
You have a bit of an issue with timeline.
The OT believers believed in full that there was a coming Messiah. They awaited His coming, eagerly. They checked "potential messiahs" to the Scriptures, to see if they could be the one. They always had hope that there would be a fulfillment of the Messianic promise.
Did they know His name would be Yeshua? No. And they died long before they got to see the fulfillment of the promises.
But they died believing in that promise.
_____________________________
rawr.ben
Facebook
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 6/4/2010 9:03:19 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 5783
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
|
quote:
The OT believers believed in full that there was a coming Messiah. I think it's you who have an "issue with timeline", Ben! When was the concept of "Messiah" first stated in Scripture?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 6/4/2010 9:07:57 AM
|
|
|
Eutychus
Posts: 9846
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Dothan, AL
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: drmark
quote:
The OT believers believed in full that there was a coming Messiah. I think it's you who have an "issue with timeline", Ben! When was the concept of "Messiah" first stated in Scripture?
That would be Genesis 3, the same day mankind died spiritually.
_____________________________
Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." -John 6:29
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Old Testament Believers - 6/4/2010 11:58:30 AM
|
|
|
drmark
Posts: 5783
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: online
|
quote:
That would be Genesis 3, the same day mankind died spiritually. Nope, there's no use of the word Mashiyach until Leviticus and it refers to annointed rulers there and throughout Samuel and Chronicles. In fact, we have to go all the way to Daniel 9 to find any reference at all to the name Messiah as the unique Annointed One of God. I believe Daniel was written about 3400 years before A&E, so how exactly were all these OT saints believing in Messiah?
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
