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What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 6/28/2010 7:57:55 PM
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rokko17
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I knew this would get attention. What I am wondering is what Jesus really did. I am a believer and I feel I am close to something. I know the results of what he did. I am justified with Christ and have eternal life. My question is what is the big idea about him dying? I would die-even death on the cross to save all of humanity. I would probably sacrifice my only child if I was sure of the outcome. I feel his life is what, to me, seems worthy of the most praise. Without the perfect life there would be no perfect sacrifice. Maybe it is just his incredible obedience. I am asking God for revelation and maybe it will come from someone here.
I am also looking for explanations on Jesus taking on our sin. I have read some articles that do stress that he didn't become sin but became a substitute for our sin.
Thanks for any answers.
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 6/28/2010 8:51:12 PM
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sen10tious
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The dying? Any sinner can do that. I thought it was about the resurrecting.
_____________________________
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 6/28/2010 10:11:31 PM
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rokko17
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The resurrection was a miracle from God. From a human standpoint, Jesus didn't have much to do with that. From a God standpoint that has everything to do with it. I know as a sinner, I couldn't be a substitute. I am just wondering if I am missing something or making this way too complicated. I agree with jbird that his life has everything to do with it. Maybe his death was a culmination of his life. As I said earlier what strikes me through his life is obedience to the Father.
Thanks for the replies.
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 6/29/2010 9:33:15 AM
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nuclear_sidewalk
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2 Cor 5:21
God came down through Jesus, an equal part of the trinity, to live as fully God and fully man. He was tempted as we are, but knew no sin. He bore the sins of the world on the cross and, more importantly, the righteous wrath of God that we deserved. His resurrection proved that He broke the power of both sin and death - and that His work is worth believing, living and dying for. Considering all that, his yoke really is easy. Just believe, repent and walk in the Holy Spirit. (which might sound difficult, but it's what happens when someone actually "gets it," rather than feeling emotional or sorry and just praying a prayer... then never growing)
This is why "religion" (as most people see and practice it) is such a disgrace, and why basing salvation in anything but Christ's subsitutionary atonement is wrong. Religion asks what we can do to please God, while Christ's work did the exact opposite. It reached down and did what we could not do for ourselves, so that we may be reconciled to the Father. Good works are a result of the regenerating work of Christ and should be a part of every believer's life, but they do not do anything to save or somehow "improve upon" what Christ did. Ideally, they are an outflowing of our love for Him, and proof of the Spirit's work in changing our desires from the inside-out.
< Message edited by nuclear_sidewalk -- 6/29/2010 9:39:42 AM >
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 6/29/2010 5:57:17 PM
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evry1needsgod
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quote:
ORIGINAL: sen10tious
The dying? Any sinner can do that. I thought it was about the resurrecting.
You nailed it. People die for one another every day. No one resurrects themselves for another.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
_____________________________
"Believers are saved from their sin, not merely in their sinning!"--drmark
"Our will are ours, we know not how; our wills are ours, to make them Thine." - Alfred, Lord Tennyson
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 6/29/2010 10:10:59 PM
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patricius79
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quote:
ORIGINAL: evry1needsgod
quote:
ORIGINAL: sen10tious
The dying? Any sinner can do that. I thought it was about the resurrecting.
You nailed it. People die for one another every day. No one resurrects themselves for another.
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.
1Co 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
Yes, and nobody could do what Christ did: dying for terrible sinners like us. There is nobody that would have done this but Jesus, Who Is Eternal Mercy
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 7/1/2010 2:28:04 PM
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drmark
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quote:
What I am wondering is what Jesus really did. Philippians 2:6-8 pretty much says it all for me!
Phil 2:6-8: Who though he existed in the form of God did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking on the form of a slave, by looking like other men, and by sharing in human nature. He humbled himself, by becoming obedient to the point of death – even death on a cross!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 7/3/2010 12:00:21 AM
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Interplanner
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Is Mt. 3:15 any help here? He 'had to fulfill all righteousness.' I tend to think this is between the lines of the 'sermon on the mount' about exceeding the righteousness of the Pharisees. How could we never hate, never desire a woman in our minds? I'm not sure we can, but he's stating what is perfect and what is necessary for acceptance with the Father, with whom the Father "is well pleased." If it does improve our serve, great, but I think he was really saying it all to set the standards straight and high, and achievable by him.
Marcus
www.interplans.net
related production: THE GOSPEL I NEVER KNEW
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 7/3/2010 10:02:02 AM
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x_SoliDeoGloria_x
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Back in the days when Jesus was crucified, a lot of people died on crosses, so in that sense it wasn't any big deal. But when Jesus died on a cross, God died on a cross, for no reason other than to save humanity.
From Romans 6: Don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? ... If we have been united with him in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection.
_____________________________
"Not by work going before grace shall I deserve grace, nor by my work following grace shall I deserve eternal life; but to him that believes, sin is pardoned and righteousness imputed." -- Martin Luther
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similar question? - 7/4/2010 8:49:05 PM
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Interplanner
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Rokko17, I'm wondering if a discussion I had was similar and is helpful. A student at a Bible college was wondering "I don't get it--why Christ came. It's all about transformation, the change in our lives, right?"
What I mean is that the Gospel of justification may be widely forgotten today, so that as Os Guinness says in PROPHETIC UNTIMELINESS 'our theology is consumer-driven.' I think the whole Bible may become a big blur if we forget the fundamental question, 'how is a person made acceptable to God?'
Marcus
producer www.interplans.net
related title: THE GOSPEL I NEVER KNEW
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RE: similar question? - 7/4/2010 10:54:11 PM
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drmark
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quote:
What I mean is that the Gospel of justification may be widely forgotten today Personally, I find on these forums that the "Gospel of justification" is given far too much emphasis over the "Gospel of sanctification". But that's just me...
quote:
I think the whole Bible may become a big blur if we forget the fundamental question, 'how is a person made acceptable to God?' Indeed, we are also made righteous (acceptable to God), not merely declared righteous!
_____________________________
Jeremiah 31:31-34. The time is NOW, fellow saints!
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RE: similar question? - 7/4/2010 11:15:01 PM
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basstracker721
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Christ came so God could show His infinite mercy and goodness in a fallen world, and be Glorified for it. The end to it all is His Glory.
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 7/5/2010 7:32:02 PM
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Jabez.cd
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Too often I think we minimize the full sacrifice that Jesus made. I'm inclined to believe that His journey from the throne to the manger was as great a sacrifce as His journey from the manger to the cross. We can relate to His dying for us, but we can not even imagine what it meant for Him to set aside His Glory, humble Himself and enter into our world. That to me is a big deal that I can not even wrap my mind around.
Beyond this, while His journey to the cross included terrible sufferring in the flesh, I believe the suffering in His Spirit was far worse. He knew a sorrow that we shall never know. He was forsaken by God.
< Message edited by Jabez.cd -- 7/5/2010 7:46:35 PM >
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 7/7/2010 8:43:17 PM
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rokko17
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Wow. thanks for the responses. There is a lot to digest. I agree with drmark and again am brought back to Christ's incredible obedience. I have a daughter and I understand now God's desire for obedience over everything else. It encompasses so much. Also Jabezcd's point about His journey from the throne to the manger. In the book Jesus I Never Knew, there is a chapter along those lines. I am going to have to delve deeper into the verses regarding his resurrection. Thanks again for the responses.
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 7/11/2010 9:37:56 AM
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Mannamuncher
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Jabez.cd
Too often I think we minimize the full sacrifice that Jesus made. I'm inclined to believe that His journey from the throne to the manger was as great a sacrifce as His journey from the manger to the cross. We can relate to His dying for us, but we can not even imagine what it meant for Him to set aside His Glory, humble Himself and enter into our world. That to me is a big deal that I can not even wrap my mind around.
Beyond this, while His journey to the cross included terrible sufferring in the flesh, I believe the suffering in His Spirit was far worse. He knew a sorrow that we shall never know. He was forsaken by God.
Well said...very poignant and fitting !
We must emphasize The Who did the work over what was done.
Jesus did for us that which we could not do for ourselves !!!
Tasting death for us, paying our sin debt, being punished for our sins.
Reconciling us to The Father, opening a new and living way to God.
Galatians 2:20 (American Standard Version)
20 I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I that live, but Christ living in me: and that life which I now live in the flesh I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself up for me.
_____________________________
For our lack of righteousness there is no disguise
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 8/6/2010 10:05:45 PM
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JohnHale
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If I understand what the OP is asking...
Jesus is the Creator... pre-incarnate.
John 1:1-3 (NASB95)
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.
Colossians 1:16 (NASB95)
16 For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him.
The Holy Spirit was present (Genesis 1:2) and no doubt the Father was as well (there is no mention of it in scripture though). And the preincarnate Jesus (God the Word) did all of the creating... alone by himself (Isaiah 44:24). He is therefore responsible for the state of the creation and this is why it was he who became a man and died on the cross for human sin (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2).
Proverbs 26:27 (NASB95)
27 He who digs a pit will fall into it, And he who rolls a stone, it will come back on him.
The individuals in the Godhead hold different offices. The Holy Spirit is the spokesperson for the Messiah leading humanity to all truth (John 16:13 / John 14:26 / John 17:17) inspiring the prophets (writing and non-writing):
2 Peter 1:20-21 (NASB95)
20 But know this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one’s own interpretation,
21 for no prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God.
The Father? The Son? Were they involved in the writing of scripture? No... unless scripture can be produced to indicate otherwise.
The Father retains a higher attribute of deity level Jesus and the Holy Spirit emptied themselves of (apparently to deal directly with temporal beings such as ourselves). It is clear in Philippians 2:7 Jesus at least did empty himself while maintaining his deity (morphe theos huparchon in verse 6). And the Spirit must search the mind of God (the Father) in 1 Corinthians 2:10... And only the Father knows future things like the second coming of Christ (Matthew 24:36 / Mark 13:32 / Acts 1:7) the Father also retains the full authority of deity (John 14:28, Luke 22:42).
The Father did create one thing. The body of the incarnation.
John 1:14 (NASB95)
14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Hebrews 10:5-7 (NASB95)
5 Therefore, when He comes into the world, He says, “Sacrifice and offering You have not desired, But a body You have prepared for Me;
6 In whole burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You have taken no pleasure.
7 “Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come (In the scroll of the book it is written of Me) To do Your will, O God*.’ ”
*Father calls the Son God Hebrews 1:8
Jesus (preincarnate) created the first Adam (John 1:3 / Colossians 1:16 / Genesis 1:1 / Luke 3:38).
God the Father created the last Adam (John 1:14 / Hebrews 10:5-7 / 1 Corinthians 15:45) which is how the creation of man in God's image was the "Us" and "Our" of let Us create man in Our image after Our likeness... Jesus was going to create Adam in the image of the Adam the Father was going to create his body as... which scripture calls...
Colossians 1:13-15 (NASB95)
13 For He rescued us from the domain of darkness, and transferred us to the kingdom of His beloved Son,
14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.
15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Remember in Genesis 1:1 omniscient minds are at work.
So with all that preliminary background as to why the big deal about the death of Jesus in the OP?
First of all, our ability to die affords us the possibility to be redeemed.
Angels can't be redeemed from sin and judgment because they cannot die. They are already in their final state. And no kinsman redeemer could be nor was sent to pay for their sins... which wouldn't matter since they cannot die.
Jesus is our kinsman redeemer. His body was created with the same sinlessness of Adam before the fall. He was born of a virgin uniting him with humanity in relations while at the same time keeping him sinless by nature. Ever wonder why he spit on some to heal them? Without a sin nature even his bodily fluids were above reproach. He could fast (no food or drink) 40 days and 40 nights. The only other human able to accomplish this was Moses (which God sustained him miraculously with Jesus there is no indication God did anything to make life easier on him).
He lead a sinless life and he laid it down as the sin offering for all humanity (1 Timothy 4:10 / 1 John 2:2). This is not universalism. Whosoever will believe (activates their account with Christ) shall be saved. Those who do not shall continue on their predetermined fate that whosoever doesn't or won't believe is already condemned. John 3:16-18.
The fact that God, our Creator, became a man for the purpose to die in his body for the sins of the humanity he created (and by so doing sealing the fate of the angels who sinned previously (also his creation)... makes Jesus' death an eternal big deal. Bigger than the universe itself kind of big deal.
Now wait... this isn't over yet. He rose from the grave. This means we have eternal life not just the forgiveness of sins. And as the late Adrian Rogers put so well... Adam lost far less than we gained in Christ. God walked with Adam. God dwells in believers in Jesus. Adam had a number of years of life on this earth. We who believe in Jesus will life for all eternity with him.
_____________________________
If we are actually the truth seekers we like to think we are, then forsaking self will and falling in love with the will of God instead is the only way we become truth finders.
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RE: What's the big deal with what Jesus did? - 8/8/2010 7:40:00 PM
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Jabez.cd
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quote:
ORIGINAL: JohnHale
First of all, our ability to die affords us the possibility to be redeemed.
Angels can't be redeemed from sin and judgment because they cannot die. They are already in their final state. And no kinsman redeemer could be nor was sent to pay for their sins... which wouldn't matter since they cannot die.
Where did you get the idea that angels can not die?
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