|
Users viewing this topic:
none
|
|
Login  | |
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 4:28:33 AM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 8730
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: a_sparrow
Mom is trying to be nice about it, but I heard her mention possibly hiring something to come in. I need to at least show her that I'm getting things under control so she doesn't proceed to that extreme.
Elizabeth, help me to understand your problem with this. What would be wrong with letting her hire a carer to come in? How come you consider it an "extreme"?
Following her spell in hospital, my mother has a carer coming in every morning just for half an hour, and it's been wonderful for her. She gets someone to chat to, has a few jobs done for her, and she is really enjoying it. That leaves me with just her weekly shopping to do and a phone call or two each day to check up on how she is.
Wouldn't it take the weight off your shoulders as much as anything and leave you free to just visit and chat rather than having to do housework, chores etc? Wouldn't it also release you to be able to go away for a few days if you wanted to, knowing that someone else was taking care of her?
Besides, wouldn't it actually be good for your mother not to be 100% dependent on you?
_____________________________
"I really, really like this. Five stars!", Sideways March 2010
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 7:43:00 AM
|
|
|
a_sparrow
Posts: 626
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
Manda,
She's not considered a carer. She's thinking of a cleaning lady to come in once or twice. At this point, she doesn't need a high level of care. She needs help with certain bathing and dressing tasks, because her knees must be below her hips at all times, she needs help with anything that would require a lot of exertion, and she needs a driver to get her to and fro (if she were to need/want to go anywhere, which hasn't happened yet) and to bring in necessities, as she's not cleared to drive yet. It's probably not safe for her to walk in/out of the house yet, either, because the steps leading up are steep and the handrails, inadequate. It's also good to have someone around who is aware of her general state, level of swelling, etc., I think.
We have plenty of time to visit; when I'm not at work, I'm here, unless I'm somewhere quite local, so that's not really something that's been lacking. The personal care isn't lacking, either; I've been getting done what she needs done, which as I said at this point is minimal. The part I've fallen down on is housework.
I guess in our family, any able-bodied adult female resident, either temporary or permanent, takes care of a home and the grounds, regardless of what other responsibilities she has. And I must say that anyone who can spent the better part of a weekend resting does not even have a lot of responsibilities, IMO. Perhaps I'm nuts; it is her house, and she's willing to bring someone in, and does not want me to spend all my time running around. But I know it would bug her to have any non-family member cleaning her house. Yeah, she'll need this when I leave, but there's no point in making it necessary while I'm still here.
I think I have a lot of guilt from childhood about everything my poor mom did and put up with. She cleaned house in the middle of the night so that she could spend every available minute with me after she got home from her paid job and on the weekends. She dreamed up all sorts of child-friendly and educational activities, and spent money I'm sure she didn't have. She never stopped to breathe for a second. I am just so the opposite of that in every way. I know it distressed her to have such a shiftless daughter, and although she makes an effort to be "nice" and encouraging now that I am middle-aged, I can't imagine she is any less distressed, underneath it all.
Well, I guess this has helped me to see that this issue is really bigger than hiring a housecleaner for an hour.
_____________________________
Elizabeth
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 8:02:28 AM
|
|
|
magdaleine
Posts: 4923
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
anyone who can spent the better part of a weekend resting does not even have a lot of responsibilities, IMO quote:
I know it distressed her to have such a shiftless daughter You're pretty hard on yourself. It was just a day or two ago that I was complaining about how I've been "sitting on my duff" all summer doing nothing and I got "jumped on" by people in this thread, including you (see post 6238), because I've had good reason to do so. Aren't you also not well? Wouldn't it be true for you too?
_____________________________
Maggie
Magdaleine's Maddening Imagings
|
|
|
|
|
Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 8:08:05 AM
|
|
|
pink..
Posts: 11160
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: a_sparrow
Well, I guess this has helped me to see that this issue is really bigger than hiring a housecleaner for an hour.
I think it would be good for both of you, and it would also help someone out there who either needs the money or just wants to help someone else out.
_____________________________
Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin and an antiseptic.
~ John Henry Jowett
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 8:16:15 AM
|
|
|
agapetos
Posts: 9866
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
Status: offline
|
quote:
You're pretty hard on yourself. It was just a day or two ago that I was complaining about how I've been "sitting on my duff" all summer doing nothing and I got "jumped on" by people in this thread, including you (see post 6238), because I've had good reason to do so. Aren't you also not well? Wouldn't it be true for you too? I couldn't agree more...
quote:
I think I have a lot of guilt from childhood about everything my poor mom did and put up with. She cleaned house in the middle of the night so that she could spend every available minute with me after she got home from her paid job and on the weekends. She dreamed up all sorts of child-friendly and educational activities, and spent money I'm sure she didn't have. She never stopped to breathe for a second. But you have to realise that these were her decisions to make. She sounds as though she was a great mother to you from what you say here. That does not mean that you should feel guitly because of what she did.
I know a lot of people who don't seem to stop to breathe for a second. That's often the way they love to live. They work out how to afford the things that they want to do and make savings elsewhere. You're not your mother and you shouldn't feel that you need to do everything that your mother did.
_____________________________
Stovie, Stovie, what am I going to do with you!
Maggie
September 09
My blog
|
|
|
|
|
Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 10:20:18 AM
|
|
|
pink..
Posts: 11160
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: a_sparrow
I even missed things on the grocery list, even though I was at the Supermarket twice! (I did get knockwurst, though.  )
I think most people do that from time to time. I think that's just part of being human.
quote:
Mom is trying to be nice about it, but I heard her mention possibly hiring something to come in.
Did she say it in a way that made you feel guilty? That one of the reasons why I think you'd feel like this:
quote:
I need to at least show her that I'm getting things under control so she doesn't proceed to that extreme.
Maggie - my book came today. 
_____________________________
Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin and an antiseptic.
~ John Henry Jowett
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 4:04:28 PM
|
|
|
magdaleine
Posts: 4923
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Oh cool! I was going to ask you about that this weekend and then forgot.
_____________________________
Maggie
Magdaleine's Maddening Imagings
|
|
|
|
|
Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 4:26:43 PM
|
|
|
pink..
Posts: 11160
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: magdaleine
Oh cool! I was going to ask you about that this weekend and then forgot.
I read the Forword today. We have company coming for supper in a little while, so I probably won't start on reading any of the rest of it until tomorrow at the earliest.
ETA: my dd came home from school and gave me a compliment on how clean the house is. I got way more done than I thought I did, but not as much as I wanted. I guess it's time to lower my standards for myself in this area.
< Message edited by PinkCarnations -- 9/28/2009 4:48:28 PM >
_____________________________
Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin and an antiseptic.
~ John Henry Jowett
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 5:21:14 PM
|
|
|
agapetos
Posts: 9866
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: This side of the lil duck pond!
Status: offline
|
quote:
I guess it's time to lower my standards for myself in this area. I don't think it's a case of lowering standards, but knowing how to pace yourself and accepting that the mess didn't get there overnight and it's not going to disappear overnight...
_____________________________
Stovie, Stovie, what am I going to do with you!
Maggie
September 09
My blog
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 7:04:23 PM
|
|
|
magdaleine
Posts: 4923
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
It's better than not hearing theh "we're okay" part.
_____________________________
Maggie
Magdaleine's Maddening Imagings
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 8:36:15 PM
|
|
|
magdaleine
Posts: 4923
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
Edith, I've been reading your blog and decided to note comments as I'm writing and share them here rather than privately. If you'd rather I do it privately, let me know. I can delete this post. And yes, I owe you a pm. My brain hasn't been clear enough yet to respond.
quote:
I came across a study Bible that really attracted me, so I bought it and the journey began. What study Bible did you get?
quote:
I was generally too busy to people watch, but it was amazing what I seemed to pick up by osmosis as the day went by. I came to the conclusion that I'm an emotional sponge. So sadly to say I often felt burdened by things I wan't always conscious of. Believe me, I didn't need the extra baggage. I've heard it said that this is an indication of the gift of intercession and the stuff you're picking up is a prompt to pray--yes, even for strangers.
quote:
When she argued with me, I pointed out that she had asked for OUR opinion and that was what she was getting....As I look back on this incident, I'm amazed at the changes it made in my life. While I still wanted and needed affirmation, as we all do, I suddenly realized that even that would have to be on my terms from now on and not everybody elses terms. That's so cool--one that you were able to speak your mind and two that the result, despite being sent to the hallway, made a positive impact on your life.
I never had trouble asking questions. At least not from grade five and onwards. I drove my teacher and classmates nuts! Now I drive my friends nuts. There's so much I want to know!
quote:
It was actually me being legalistic and hard on myself (although I doubt I understood the term back then). Yeah. That was me too as a young teen. If one thing was good then certain other things had to be even better.
quote:
The next few years (junior high or "middle school" to some) were very important in my life. During this time "me" became "me." Yes, I've changed with time as we all do, but somehow that's when I felt I was taking form, becoming something definite and solid, leaving behind that time where it seemed I was whatever others wanted me to be, where I seemed to be formless, somewhat ephemeral, like jelly that hasn't set, not sure of what I was supposed to be. That's great that you were able to do that so young! I certainly didn't and I'm not sure when I did--if I ever have.
< Message edited by magdaleine -- 9/29/2009 7:18:12 AM >
_____________________________
Maggie
Magdaleine's Maddening Imagings
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 9:18:15 PM
|
|
|
manda59
Posts: 8730
Joined: 9/22/2005
From: Hampshire, UK
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: a_sparrow
But I know it would bug her to have any non-family member cleaning her house.
So let her be bugged!
quote:
Yeah, she'll need this when I leave, but there's no point in making it necessary while I'm still here.
Of course there's a point. It would mean she'd have chance to get used to the new arrangement, and to have any issues ironed out, before you leave.
quote:
I know it distressed her to have such a shiftless daughter, and although she makes an effort to be "nice" and encouraging now that I am middle-aged, I can't imagine she is any less distressed, underneath it all.
How do you know it distressed her and what does "shiftless" mean?
_____________________________
"I really, really like this. Five stars!", Sideways March 2010
|
|
|
|
|
Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 11:26:39 PM
|
|
|
pink..
Posts: 11160
Status: offline
|
About two hours before my company was due for supper, I started getting nervous and wanted to call them and call it off. The only reason I didn't was because I felt it would be rude. About 15 minutes after they got here, I had to make an excuse to go to my room to put stuff away. The noise level was just too much. I think I was in my room for about five minutes. I came back out and we watched a movie, ate supper and played a couple of games of Sequence. At one point their 16 year old ds said something that got everyone laughing, but his mom and I wound up with the giggles for most of the night after that. All in all, I'm glad I didn't cancel. I didn't have any panic problems and no one noticed (or at least they didn't say anything if they did) about the things that I didn't get done in the house.
quote:
quote:
I guess it's time to lower my standards for myself in this area. I don't think it's a case of lowering standards, but knowing how to pace yourself and accepting that the mess didn't get there overnight and it's not going to disappear overnight...
That's true.
_____________________________
Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin and an antiseptic.
~ John Henry Jowett
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 11:42:31 PM
|
|
|
a_sparrow
Posts: 626
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
quote:
OK ... I officially a "nervous wreck" .... again.
My wonderful DH Ron just called... the hydraulics on the airplane just failed ... so the plane is "broken." (and will be broken for days, it seems.) Anyway, their plan is to rent a car and drive home ... the hydraulics failed in Camarillo (Southern California.) (Note: he is a military pilot, for those who don't know that!)
Please pray for safe travels home as they rent a car and drive 4+ hours or so.... and for the plane to be "safely fixed."
(And can I say, as a pilot's wife, that it makes me a wee bit anxious to hear "the plane is broken, but we're OK.")
Oh, my...the plane is "broken" - ? Good grief. No, I would not care to hear that. I am glad that they are renting a car and that the plane is grounded until it is fixed!
quote:
The thing is, she said she was completely cured and has never had any problems since. It was after that that she took up springboard diving. So there is hope.
I've never heard of anyone not getting better - but then I must admit I don't know all that much about sciatica.
quote:
My reasoning was that if this pain was something Satan was doing to keep me from church, I wasn't going to let him win. Church and my doctor are the two things I don't miss if I can help it.
That is an awesome line of reasoning, Maggie. My church attendance record these days...well, to be honest there is almost no record of church attendance on my part these days. To think that all the obstacles and contrary considerations to church attendance we dream up or that actually are placed in our paths were conceived by Satan to keep us away from the gathering together of believers -- well, for the most part, that's true. And I've never even thought about it.
quote:
You're pretty hard on yourself. It was just a day or two ago that I was complaining about how I've been "sitting on my duff" all summer doing nothing and I got "jumped on" by people in this thread, including you (see post 6238), because I've had good reason to do so. Aren't you also not well? Wouldn't it be true for you too?
I couldn't agree more...
Maybe this is what I want to hear; maybe that's why I posted. Mildly ill, plus mh stuff that hasn't stopped me from getting things done in recent weeks, really doesn't seem like a good reason to basically stop for 2 whole days. I mean, in my "real life" I would, but when someone depends on me, it's different. I mean, Maggie, you needed 2 people to help you down the stairs and were in agony. I can take stairs with no discomfort at all, without thinking about it. So it would make sense I'd be expected to do more physical stuff. Not trying to make you guys go back and forth on this point...
quote:
But you have to realise that these were her decisions to make. She sounds as though she was a great mother to you from what you say here. That does not mean that you should feel guitly because of what she did.
I know a lot of people who don't seem to stop to breathe for a second. That's often the way they love to live. They work out how to afford the things that they want to do and make savings elsewhere. You're not your mother and you shouldn't feel that you need to do everything that your mother did.
My mom put her all into being the best mom she could, and really sacrificed. As far as choice goes, she's guilt-driven, and pretty much thinks there's one right way to do everything and anything else represents moral failure, so I think she saw 2 paths in front of her: the right way, meaning, everything she did in exactly the way she did it, and the wrong way, which would have been anything that involved any deviation from that, which in her mind would have made her an awful person. She also thought the world would fall apart if she weren't at the helm, managing everything at every moment. And if anything went wrong, it would be all her fault. I'm not really sure how much choice there was in that. I know that she had a lot of anger about it. When she was younger, she was truly one of the angriest persons I'd ever met. (Kind, and affectionate with close family, but also angry.)
Now, of course I can see why I wouldn't want to be like this. I've actually tried pretty hard not to be like this. I was supposed to have worked this out years ago, but obviously, I have more work to do.
quote:
Did she say it in a way that made you feel guilty? That one of the reasons why I think you'd feel like this
No - she said it I think because she feels guilty.
quote:
So let her be bugged!
I guess I don't want her to be upset, and selfishly, I want to be a good girl who does a good job -and good job-doers don't need to bring in the reinforcements, I guess is what I've been thinking.
quote:
Of course there's a point. It would mean she'd have chance to get used to the new arrangement, and to have any issues ironed out, before you leave.
quote:
it would also help someone out there who either needs the money or just wants to help someone else out.
These are good points I hadn't thought of.
quote:
How do you know it distressed her and what does "shiftless" mean?
Shiftless, courtesy of dictionary.com, courtesy of Random House:
–adjective 1. lacking in resourcefulness; inefficient; lazy.
2. lacking in incentive, ambition, or aspiration.
That's it, 100%, absolute confirmation that I picked the right word.
Manda, when I was younger, she left no room for doubt about her distress about it at all, and she worked unceasingly to change it, and a bunch of things about who I fundamentally was, while she was at it. All her work backfired, unfortunately for her. I know she was about as self-sacrificing as it's possible to be and she did the very best she could and did many wonderful things as a mom. I've actually worked through all this stuff, supposedly, but as I said, it seems the work isn't finished. And I guess that hanging out in her house makes it more evident than it otherwise would be that there is more to be done, even if that "more" is simply forgiving her and accepting God's forgiveness of me for our parts in a situation that was, though good in many ways, imperfect, as all situations are.
Thanks, all, for the help in talking through all of this.
quote:
quote:
I guess it's time to lower my standards for myself in this area. I don't think it's a case of lowering standards, but knowing how to pace yourself and accepting that the mess didn't get there overnight and it's not going to disappear overnight...
I agree - that's exactly what it is. When things are out of control in a house, it takes a long time to get them back in shape. And your daughter complimented you - she noticed a big improvement. That means you are making progress.
_____________________________
Elizabeth
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/28/2009 11:46:37 PM
|
|
|
a_sparrow
Posts: 626
Joined: 6/20/2006
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
|
Yay, Harvie, that's great to hear, you must feel so much better!
_____________________________
Elizabeth
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2009 12:07:10 AM
|
|
|
Bountiful
Posts: 891
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: magdaleine
Edith, I've been reading your blog and decided to note comments as I'm writing and share them here rather than privately. If you'd rather I do it privately, let me know. I can delete this post. And yes, I owe you a pm. My brain hasn't been clear enough yet to respond.
quote:
I came across a study Bible that really attracted me, so I bought it and the journey began. What study Bible did you get?
I bought a Quest NIV Study Bible.
quote:
I was generally too busy to people watch, but it was amazing what I seemed to pick up by osmosis as the day went by. I came to the conclusion that I'm an emotional sponge. So sadly to say I often felt burdened by things I wan't always conscious of. Believe me, I didn't need the extra baggage. I've heard it said that this is an indication of the gift of intercession and the stuff you're picking up is a prompt to pray--yes, even for strangers.
I guess that's what I should have been doing, but I wasn't living for the Lord then. I read an interesting article by a pastor that does this. He said that he even has to monitor going to crowded places because it can be quite overwhelming and exhausting.
quote:
When she argued with me, I pointed out that she had asked for OUR opinion and that was what she was getting....As I look back on this incident, I'm amazed at the changes it made in my life. While I still wanted and needed affirmation, as we all do, I suddenly realized that even that would have to be on my terms from now on and not everybody elses terms. That's so cool--one that you were able to speak your mind and two that the result, despite being sent to the hallway, made a positive impact on your life.
Yeah, my first brave move 
I never had trouble asking questions. At least not from grade five and onwards. I drove my teacher and classmates nuts! Now I drive my friends nuts. There's so much I want to know!
quote:
It was actually me being legalistic and hard on myself (although I doubt I understood the term back then). Yeah. That was me too as a young teen. If one thing was good then certain other things had to be even better.
quote:
The next few years (junior high or "middle school" to some) were very important in my life. During this time "me" became "me." Yes, I've changed with time as we all do, but somehow that's when I felt I was taking form, becoming something definite and solid, leaving behind that time where it seemed I was whatever others wanted me to be, where I seemed to be formless, somewhat ephemeral, like jelly that hasn't set, not sure of what I was supposed to be. That's great that you were able to do that so young! I certainly didn't and I'm not sure when I did--if I ever have.
It was a good feeling at the time, but experience and time have taught me that we don't always maintain our hold on that feeling. I've lost it more than a few times since. But feeling these kinds of things for the first time is always exciting.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2009 12:24:44 AM
|
|
|
Bountiful
Posts: 891
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline
|
Elizabeth, It's easy once you leave home to think that you have forgiven or worked through whatever dysfunctional aspects were part of your growing up.
But going back to your childhood home for an extended stay, with your mother NOT able to be in full control, is liable to bring out a lot of the old stuff again.
Believe me, I know. I had my mother come to stay overnight in July, thinking that our relationship was so much better, that we would really enjoy ourselves. Well, it turned out to be a disaster. What a joke 
I don't think we realize how quickly we fall into old patterns of behavior and thinking. Actually I think you and your mom have done amazingly well.
But as you said, you are now grown up. You are who you are (including all of the good, the bad and the ugly) and she is who she is with all her good, bad and ugly).
If she wants to hire someone to help, let her do so. Don't take it as a reflection on you. You are still working while you are there. And I don't think you should have to be on the go seven days a week.
Your description of your mother could be used to describe my mother as well. She too tried to do her best, worked very hard, but it was her way or no way. It's still the same way today. I couldn't please her then, and I can't please her now. We have a wonderful relationship along as 90% of it is on the telephone.
Hang in there. You'll make it.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2009 12:33:19 AM
|
|
|
Bountiful
Posts: 891
Joined: 12/15/2008
Status: offline
|
Maggie, I should have stated that I don't mind you making comments on my blog in this thread. If I have any problem with something specific I will let you know.
By the way, how do you get your post to separate parts of the quote so that you can deal with it just sections of it at a time. I'm a bit of a twit when it comes to finagling with computers.
|
|
|
|
|
RE: Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2009 7:32:20 AM
|
|
|
magdaleine
Posts: 4923
Joined: 4/11/2005
Status: offline
|
quote:
Edith, I've been reading your blog and decided to note comments as I'm writing and share them here rather than privately. If you'd rather I do it privately, let me know. I can delete this post. And yes, I owe you a pm. My brain hasn't been clear enough yet to respond. Oops! That was supposed to go in MY thread, not this one. Sheesh! Sorry.
quote:
It was a good feeling at the time, but experience and time have taught me that we don't always maintain our hold on that feeling...But feeling these kinds of things for the first time is always exciting. Very true.
quote:
My husband is home. Wooo hoooo! Guess we won't be hearing from you for a while!
quote:
Roberta - Congratulations on your successful evening with company!!
That's a really big accomplishment. So glad you ended up enjoying it. Yes! I agree!
quote:
Maggie, I should have stated that I don't mind you making comments on my blog in this thread. If I have any problem with something specific I will let you know. Thanks. As said above, I meant it for MY thread. So if I do any more of that, hopefully that's where I will post it. (Still shaking my head at myself.)
quote:
By the way, how do you get your post to separate parts of the quote so that you can deal with it just sections of it at a time. I didn't figure out how to do that on my own, Edith. I had to be told. So, anything you put between (quote) and (/quote), using square brackets instead of round, will show up in the quote box.
_____________________________
Maggie
Magdaleine's Maddening Imagings
|
|
|
|
|
Mental Health Encouragement - One Stop Thread - 9/29/2009 8:19:00 AM
|
|
|
pink..
Posts: 11160
Status: offline
|
quote:
ORIGINAL: Harvie
My husband is home.
WHOO HOO!
_____________________________
Gratitude is a vaccine, an antitoxin and an antiseptic.
~ John Henry Jowett
|
|
|
|
 New Messages |
 No New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/ New Messages |
 Hot Topic w/o New Messages |
 Locked w/ New Messages |
 Locked w/o New Messages |
|
 Post New Thread
Reply to Message
Post New Poll
Submit Vote
Delete My Own Post
Delete My Own Thread
Rate Posts |
|
|
Forum Tools
Printable Version
MARRIED TO A MILITARY PILOT 
PLEASE PRAY FOR OUR TROOPS! 